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ZeroHedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
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Ukraine’s NATO Membership 'Will Not Take Place': German Chancellor
- Thread starter Gen Jack D. Ripper
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So Ukraine’s NATO membership is off the table. Time for Russia to withdraw.ZeroHedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
Waiting waiting waiting.......
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So according to this article, no Ukraine in NATO and it’s known and understood. Isn’t that the the biggest reassurance Putin wanted?ZeroHedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
“I also made it clear in Moscow and in my visit that this option [Ukraine’s membership of NATO] is not on the table and will not take place,” he said during an interview with German public broadcaster ZDF.
“I said publicly that we all know that Ukraine’s NATO membership is not on the alliance’s agenda today,” he added. “That was understood by the American president, that [was] also understood by the French president.”
Scholz said he shares Russian President Vladimir Putin’s security concern and clarified to Putin that Ukraine will not be allowed to join NATO.
“The Russians were worried about the control issue of their security. [Putin was worried] that NATO has a military setup and rockets in Ukraine targeting Russian territory. That is why we tried to make it clear that this will not occur,” he elaborated.
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Russia wants a written guarantee.
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- Oct 1, 2016
So if their going to give it to them then put it in writing contingent only upon the full withdraw of all Russia forces from the entire country of Ukraine.
I’d also add the removal of all Iskanders from Ukrainian and nato boarders
They won’t and the other wouldn’t do it even if it was put in writing.
One wonders if Zelensky could have avoided this by facing reality and not trying to join NATO in the first place, or facing reality and not trying to pull NATO into a war with Russia.
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It wouldn’t have made a difference either way Russia wasn’t going to tolerate a non compliant Ukraine. NATO had been saying no since 2014 because of open border conflict in the east and crimea. Before that it was fascist in Donetsk.
There was going to be no scenario where Ukraine was going to be left alone till Putin had installed the leader he wanted. Full stop.
There was going to be no scenario where Ukraine was going to be left alone till Putin had installed the leader he wanted. Full stop.
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Putin might still prevail but it will be a Pyrrhic Victory.
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Na won't work that way at all. Putin should say in writing now or i finish the job with a Russian government in UKRAINE first. Then we discuss Sweden, Finland, Estonia etcetc. Otherwise they are next. He has been bitten too many times by west and so called agreements etc.
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The difference is that the U.S. hasn't waged war to take over countries and force them into NATO.
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Obviously the US hasn't felt threatened by its neighbours let alone a massive coalition. No comparison honestly, I'm surprised at you. Why or how do you compare the two. Please refresh me when America was in such a position as Russia. I'm interested.
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Irrelevant. Ukraine is free to do whatever it wants. Russia has nooooooo saaaaayyyyy.
If Russia feels threatened, they are free to beef up their border. They don't have the right to invade someone else's country.
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That’s what I said give it to him in writing but if has to leave Ukraine forthwith. If he doesn’t then it’s void. And after Ukraine with or without nato Russia couldn’t take Finland or Sweden with just conventional weapons.
Greater than 75% chance Finland will join nato directly. What’s he going to do then invade Finland? Finland and Sweden’s militaries have been training together for years and much of the interoperability issues between them have already been worked out.
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Remember nations ask to join nato, nato doesn’t invade them. Putins not afraid of a nato military on its boarder. He’s afraid of a westernized nation with close cultural ties on his boarder.
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And there it is. West says ussr is history suck it up. And Putin life goal is the return of ussr .. This is bigger than Ukraine. He doesn't see new countries on old land as anything other than an invasion. In his eyes who invaded who first. Ukraine is only a small part of his goals. Time will tell. But should he lose we all lose.
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Did I miss some joint declaration to invade and conquer russia? I don't recall any of our planning back in the day involved invading russia. So where does this assertion, this immutable law of the universe come from, that NATO is going to invade russia, and slaughter all their fat little children?
Is Luxembourg planning an airmobile drop on Domededovo? Is Demark sending SOE operators to kill putin?
I guess we're ready to roll on the PRC, too?
Dude. That digger bunk must be some righteous keff. I've never been stoned enough to believe those hysterics.
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Once again read slowly please. And do some homework on the breakup of ussr. Then do some homework on the countries formed from that. Now we have whats left RUSSIA. Now go back say 20yrs to present day. Now from that you will find countries split again where original borders in half. Half nato half not. I'm not going to change your mind or your beliefs but history is real and answers are obvious. Repetition also exists as it is repeating again. You hate Putin . Your choice. I feel sorry for him. My choice. You say he is responsible for the deaths of innocent people women and children included. Fair call America has never will never. Your beliefs. Putin never hid intentions ever. I know i heard him say his intentions for over a decade and the west never listened. Now your all upset like its a shock. Don't worry there's more to come. I know because he has made this clear while trying to avoid it for years and years. You have nothing to lose or worry about so I'm surprised at the reactions considering. Your invincible dome will always protect you from countries like Russia and China. Yet we are led to believe a hand full of terrorists got through.
seems in all honesty maybe your only true threat comes from the middle east nowadays which could be the answer to Afghanistan. And that's is only one example of a country you didn't even have interest in invading. Like most of your wars. Would have could have means shit when you didn't. The list of countries goes on. I'm sure the excuses do aswell.
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ZeroHedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
At this point Russia will go on. It's absolutly impossible that they bought it because Scholz has said an half word about a "Ukraine’s membership is not on The North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO)’s agenda and will not take place". And I am almost sure that at this point a written garantee will doesn't last neither. In order to see Russian troops withdraw, at that point, all the requests I think that has to be accepted: Crimea recognition, Donesk and Lughansk indipendence recognition, and Ukraine demilitarization: the whole, with the military Russian supervision. And I say, as an Occidental, that I hope that Occident doesn't agree at these requests: at this point is a matter of dignity, we should have do (some of) that before. We have shown the most great unavailability to make any compromise and then, after a week of war, as soon as Russia fires a shot, we should capitolate? After having forbidden Russian literature because it is Russian, after having expropriated Russian outside Russia, just because Russian, after having said that Putin must be killed also at the very higher level of some European Coutries, we have to capitolate? At Russia eyes we will become ridiculous.
There aren't good choices. The better one, it is wait that the war ends, and it is likely that, at the end, Ukraine will not be neutral, and that Russian waepon will be put in. The initial Russian request of neutrality of Ukraine was a win/win proposal. But afeter a war, why should Russia accept that? I hope that this will serves us as a lesson, and than it is stupid to show the unvailiability to any compromise, when we are actually not ready defend such an hard position.
A large part of the people with which I have spoke about this war, they don't undestand. The say: "we are in 2022, it's impossible that in 2022 there is a war, is unacceptable!". So, finally, we were so unwilling to make any compromise just because: "let alone... a war, nooo, ah ah ah"? Ok, we have just seen that Russia doesn't care about we are in 2022.
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US are more sophisticated. The World Economic Forum spots some people, names them Young Global Leader and uses medias on their side to put these YGL into power. Look at the list of YGL in power now. Ukrainian president, Finland PM, Canada PM, Mcron, .... These YGL are there to push the global agenda.
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So let them have a written guarantee and honor it just as much as the written guarantee they signed about Ukraine's borders.
Written treaties are pieces of expensive toilet paper in the 21st century.