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Kalingrad-Lithuania | 2022

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alphaecho said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1542125499476058117
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Here's a bit more color on this (from Interfax):

"If this (the blockade of Kaliningrad) happens, then things can come to an armed conflict. And we must tell the truth in person. According to the 4th article of our Constitution, the Russian state is obliged to defend its territory and ensure its security. If we feel that this security is violated and (the situation) threatens us with the loss of territory, then, of course, we will take extreme measures, and nothing will stop us," Dzhabarov said in an interview with the Vmeste-RF TV channel. In his opinion, Lithuanian President Gitanas Nauseda, stating that Vilnius would not compromise on the issue of transit to the Kaliningrad region, acted "on the orders of two countries - Great Britain, first of all, and the United States of America, because they would very much like to so that Russia gets involved in some kind of conflict. But I think that other leaders of the European Union have already explained to Nausede how this will end not only for his country, but for the whole of Europe," the senator believes. "I think it was popularly explained to him that the subsidies that you now receive, Mr. Nauseda, and at the expense of which your country lives from the European Union, you can lose them. And I'm sure that there were some tough talks with him, the position softened, and now negotiations are underway to resolve all contentious issues through diplomacy," the senator said.
 
BREAKING: Sources confirm to Reuters that the European Commission, backed by Germany, is pushing Lithuania to remove EU sanctions on goods passing through to Kaliningrad. The EC fears escalation, but LT thinks that backing down to Russian threats would only embolden Putin.
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1542274877817851905
 
Araxen said:
Backing down to Putin just kicks the can down the road. Eventually you have to put your foot down. You should do it on your own terms, and not his.
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Obreid said:
Well considering the rest of NATO’s position including the Swiss I think Germany is being outvoted.

Want to avoid expanded conflict and a greater war?
Keep the pressure gently escalate it and continue to impress upon Putin the no one is going away on this.
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By words, it seems that all it's easy for you. Do you want to avoid an expanded conflict? What's the problem? Keep continuing to excalate! No compromises, of course. All know that, from the ancient age: do you want the peace? So, absolutely you have to make NO compromises at all! On the contrary: make the other with back to the wall, so he can understand that he has no other choices, but to adapt. Do you want the things that you want? Do them at your own terms.

Quoting some other genious: do you want to avoid the war? Someone should kill Putin. It's easy.

I think this: who thinks like that, is eventually hoping for a larger war, because he doesn't know what a war is, and he thinks to could be involved only in some abstracted way, not practical. And when a larger wars will begin - because if we want it, it WILL BEGIN -, maybe I will stop to write here, because I will have some other things to do, and you will keep going with theories about not spreading the war further, maybe using nukes. but then your turn will come.

To block of goods to reach Kaliningrad, is the right way to make the war excalate, not to avoid it: and that is absolutely evident.
 
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bartok said:
By words, it seems that all it's easy for you. Do you want to avoid an expanded conflict? What's the problem? Keep continuing to excalate! No compromises, of course. All know that, from the ancient age: do you want the peace? So, absolutely you have to make NO compromises at all! On the contrary: make the other with back to the wall, so he can understand that he has no other choices, but to adapt. Do you want the things that you want? Do them at your own terms.

Quoting some other genious: do you want to avoid the war? Someone should kill Putin. It's easy.

I think this: who thinks like that, is eventually hoping for a larger war, because he doesn't know what a war is, and he thinks to could be involved only in some abstracted way, not practical. And when a larger wars will begin - because if we want it, it WILL BEGIN -, maybe I will stop to write here, because I will have some other things to do, and you will keep going with theories about not spreading the war further, maybe using nukes. but then your turn will come.

To block of goods to reach Kaliningrad, is the right way to make the war excalate, not to avoid it: and that is absolutely evident.
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And yet again you ignore the obvious.
The Ukrainian people rejected Putin’s offer of strategic alliance and his security guarantees.
Putin and Russia invaded Ukraine.

Now you say Russia’s back is against the wall. Well yeah, the whole world can see that.
Yet somehow you still claim it is NATO’s and Ukraine’s obligation to submit or compromise to untenable demands from Russia still.
That it is wrong for nato to gradually increase the sanctions and military aid to Ukraine as some how being an unwise and inflammatory move in their part.
Well we’re just going to disagree with that one.
This is Russia’s problem to fix, they can do so by withdrawing or come to the negotiating table with something less than Kiev must replace their gov with a Russian approved Satrapy.
There is no compromise from Russia only death.
First they were going to rescue western oppressed Slavic brothers. Now their their to abduct children to bolster a shrinking ethnic Russia population and kill all the fascist who reject Moscow’s rule.

I’m not hoping for a larger war in any regard but I do know that submitting to a tyrant only encourages him to seize more. Their politicians say it all the time the Slavic regions and the Baltic’s are Russia’s to control.

Will there be a wider war?
It is possible, very possible.
But it will be of Russia’s making.
The Russian nations back is not against the wall. It is Putin and his cronies backs that are against the wall.

So it will probably be war. I’ve come to terms with that.
If the Slavic, Baltic, and Scandinavian countries are resolute in their stand against Russian aggression then I will stand with them.


And this war will be because of the pride and greed of Putin and his oligarchs.
Everyday Russians dying at the behest and will of historically wealthy tyrants like serfs have done throughout history.
 
Obreid said:
This is Russia’s problem to fix, they can do so by withdrawing
First they were going to rescue western oppressed Slavic brothers. Now their their to abduct children to bolster a shrinking ethnic Russia population and kill all the fascist who reject Moscow’s rule.
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Outstanding. Simply outstanding.
👍🏻👍🏻
 
Obreid said:
[...]
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And yet again you ignore the obvious.
The Ukrainian people rejected Putin’s offer of strategic alliance and his security guarantees.
Putin and Russia invaded Ukraine.
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You mistook me for yourself. Ukraine people doesn't have rejected nothing. Zelensky has rejected, after having banned all the oppostion parties. Furthermore "ukraine people" is divided. But it's useless to repeat things already known, that you refuse to see. In your opinion "Ukrainian people rejected Putin’s offer of strategic alliance and his security guarantees.". Ok.

how you say Russia’s back is against the wall. Well yeah, the whole world can see that.
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the "whole world" what, precisely? "G7 Word"? The same word without Cina, India and Russia itself, that are bigger than 4/5 out of 7, at leat? The same Word represented from 7 dudes, with the average age of 130, the most important of them who is affected by Alzheimer, not to say Draghi, never elected not even as a classe representative at school? This word? ah, ok.

However... I'm not saying that Russia is with its bach against the wall. I say something very different: that THIS is our Occidental approach to the matter, so Russia will surely react. And not only Russia.

This is Russia’s problem to fix, they can do so by withdrawing or come to the negotiating table with something less than Kiev must replace their gov with a Russian approved Satrapy.
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no, it's not! You have, it seems, an almost complete lack of practical sense. You think to be right, you think that Russia is wrong, so this is a Russia's problem and Russia has to fix it. And you don't undestand it isn't that the point. I'm not mad at you in particolar, because you represent a very big set of human people that, distracted by their own reasonings about what is right and what is wrong, they completely lose the semplicity of the terms: it's never, NEVER, a problem of someone else, if this "someone" can impose its will by force. It's simple!

I’m not hoping for a larger war in any regard but I do know that submitting to a tyrant only encourages him to seize more.
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It's the usual phrase, always good to be said. but it has nothing to do with the argument. This kind of blockace of Kalinigrad, it's an exacalating move that should have been avoided.


Their politicians say it all the time the Slavic regions and the Baltic’s are Russia’s to control.
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Their politicians are very angry for the situation because we put gazoline on the fire again and again: we should make de-exacalating moves, not excalating ones.

Will there be a wider war?
It is possible, very possible.
But it will be of Russia’s making.
The Russian nations back is not against the wall. It is Putin and his cronies backs that are against the wall.

So it will probably be war. I’ve come to terms with that.
If the Slavic, Baltic, and Scandinavian countries are resolute in their stand against Russian aggression then I will stand with them.
Click to expand...

no, you have not come to terms with that.
 
bartok said:
You mistook me for yourself. Ukraine people doesn't have rejected nothing. Zelensky has rejected, after having banned all the oppostion parties. Furthermore "ukraine people" is divided. But it's useless to repeat things already known, that you refuse to see. In your opinion "Ukrainian people rejected Putin’s offer of strategic alliance and his security guarantees.". Ok.



the "whole world" what, precisely? "G7 Word"? The same word without Cina, India and Russia itself, that are bigger than 4/5 out of 7, at leat? The same Word represented from 7 dudes, with the average age of 130, the most important of them who is affected by Alzheimer, not to say Draghi, never elected not even as a classe representative at school? This word? ah, ok.

However... I'm not saying that Russia is with its bach against the wall. I say something very different: that THIS is our Occidental approach to the matter, so Russia will surely react. And not only Russia.



no, it's not! You have, it seems, an almost complete lack of practical sense. You think to be right, you think that Russia is wrong, so this is a Russia's problem and Russia has to fix it. And you don't undestand it isn't that the point. I'm not mad at you in particolar, because you represent a very big set of human people that, distracted by their own reasonings about what is right and what is wrong, they completely lose the semplicity of the terms: it's never, NEVER, a problem of someone else, if this "someone" can impose its will by force. It's simple!


It's the usual phrase, always good to be said. but it has nothing to do with the argument. This kind of blockace of Kalinigrad, it's an exacalating move that should have been avoided.




Their politicians are very angry for the situation because we put gazoline on the fire again and again: we should make de-exacalating moves, not excalating ones.



no, you have not come to terms with that.
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ab9.jpg
Truth, run away back to daddy.
 
bartok said:
You mistook me for yourself. Ukraine people doesn't have rejected nothing. Zelensky has rejected, after having banned all the oppostion parties. Furthermore "ukraine people" is divided. But it's useless to repeat things already known, that you refuse to see. In your opinion "Ukrainian people rejected Putin’s offer of strategic alliance and his security guarantees.". Ok.



the "whole world" what, precisely? "G7 Word"? The same word without Cina, India and Russia itself, that are bigger than 4/5 out of 7, at leat? The same Word represented from 7 dudes, with the average age of 130, the most important of them who is affected by Alzheimer, not to say Draghi, never elected not even as a classe representative at school? This word? ah, ok.

However... I'm not saying that Russia is with its bach against the wall. I say something very different: that THIS is our Occidental approach to the matter, so Russia will surely react. And not only Russia.



no, it's not! You have, it seems, an almost complete lack of practical sense. You think to be right, you think that Russia is wrong, so this is a Russia's problem and Russia has to fix it. And you don't undestand it isn't that the point. I'm not mad at you in particolar, because you represent a very big set of human people that, distracted by their own reasonings about what is right and what is wrong, they completely lose the semplicity of the terms: it's never, NEVER, a problem of someone else, if this "someone" can impose its will by force. It's simple!


It's the usual phrase, always good to be said. but it has nothing to do with the argument. This kind of blockace of Kalinigrad, it's an exacalating move that should have been avoided.




Their politicians are very angry for the situation because we put gazoline on the fire again and again: we should make de-exacalating moves, not excalating ones.



no, you have not come to terms with that.
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I know I just need to get my thinking correct.
We will agree to disagree
 
bartok said:
You mistook me for yourself. Ukraine people doesn't have rejected nothing. Zelensky has rejected, after having banned all the oppostion parties. Furthermore "ukraine people" is divided. But it's useless to repeat things already known, that you refuse to see. In your opinion "Ukrainian people rejected Putin’s offer of strategic alliance and his security guarantees.". Ok.



the "whole world" what, precisely? "G7 Word"? The same word without Cina, India and Russia itself, that are bigger than 4/5 out of 7, at leat? The same Word represented from 7 dudes, with the average age of 130, the most important of them who is affected by Alzheimer, not to say Draghi, never elected not even as a classe representative at school? This word? ah, ok.

Sin embargo... no estoy diciendo que Rusia esté con su bach contra la pared. Digo algo muy diferente: que ESTE es nuestro enfoque occidental sobre el asunto, por lo que Rusia seguramente reaccionará. Y no solo Rusia.



¡no, no es! Tienes, al parecer, una falta casi completa de sentido práctico. Crees tener razón, crees que Rusia está equivocada, así que este es un problema de Rusia y Rusia tiene que solucionarlo. Y no entiendes que no es ese el punto. No estoy enojado contigo en particular, porque representas a un grupo muy grande de personas humanas que, distraídas por sus propios razonamientos sobre lo que está bien y lo que está mal, pierden por completo la sencillez de los términos: nunca, NUNCA, un problema de otro, si ese "alguien" puede imponer su voluntad por la fuerza. ¡Es simple!


Es la frase habitual, siempre es bueno decirlo. pero no tiene nada que ver con el argumento. Este tipo de bloqueo de Kalinigrad, es un movimiento exagerado que debería haberse evitado.




Sus políticos están muy enfadados por la situación porque echamos gasolina al fuego una y otra vez: deberíamos hacer movimientos de desanimación, no de exaltación.



no, no has llegado a un acuerdo con eso.
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actually they were asked and 82% of Ukrainians believe that Ukraine should not sign away any of its territories as part of a peace deal with Russia under any circumstances they are most certainly ready to fight and die
www.reuters.com

Most Ukrainians oppose territorial concessions, poll shows

Eighty-two percent of Ukrainians believe that Ukraine should not sign away any of its territories as part of a peace deal with Russia under any circumstances, according to a new survey by one of the country's top pollsters.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
 
alphaecho said:
actually they were asked and 82% of Ukrainians believe that Ukraine should not sign away any of its territories as part of a peace deal with Russia under any circumstances they are most certainly ready to fight and die
www.reuters.com

Most Ukrainians oppose territorial concessions, poll shows

Eighty-two percent of Ukrainians believe that Ukraine should not sign away any of its territories as part of a peace deal with Russia under any circumstances, according to a new survey by one of the country's top pollsters.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
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yes... imagine the reliability that could have a survey made in a Country at war, by the Ukranian backed part.
 
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