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Trump, Putin Summit

No. That's not how bombs work. It is my personal and subjective opinion that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. :)

I do, actually, look at the cities in Ukraine - and your statement makes me think you don't. In Kyiv it's actually (mostly) business as usual - public transit operates, garbage gets collected, cafes are full of people - other than the occasional air raid and the ubiqitous sightings of military vehicles and people in uniform, you'd hardly know there's a war going on at all. Same goes for most other Ukrainian cities, TBH.


This is because most of the public infrastructure in Japanese cities was made of wood, which made it very susceptible to carpet bombing using incendiary munitions. None of which is true in the case of Iran (and besides, carpet bombing is not a thing anymore).

Saying "that's what happened in WW2 in Japan, so therefore that's what's gonna hapen now in Iran" is utterly ludicrous.
Dresden was most certainly NOT made mostly of wood. The Allies in fact reduced their levels of destruction after mostly the USA (as Britain was still bitter about the blitz) was appalled at the damage and death.

You sir, quite simply are the one with no idea of what you speak. The debate should be over will. Does the USA will it to happen? Are we ready to accept the consequences of our actions. The US has lacked the will to totally commit to the destruction and defeat of an enemy since Japan in WW2.

We are even willing to lose before we have to apply anywhere near our full power (conventional). Apparently Germans being sucked into a 300 mph firestorm (sources do say 500) was worse then flash frying half a million Japanese.

But there is a huge difference between not having the ability versus the will. Just the B1 fleet represents far more striking power than the US Army Air Forces could muster to attack either Japan or Germany. Brother we have power and ability in spades.

We lack the will. We just don’t want to be bad. We collectively fear being evil.
 
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No. That's not how bombs work. It is my personal and subjective opinion that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. :)
Each of the 12 MOPs dropped on Fordow had their “fuze programmed bespokely” allowing “each weapon to achieve a particular effect inside the target,” and all of the bombs “had a unique, desired impact angle, arrival, [and] final heading,” Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff U.S. Air Force Gen. Dan “Razin” Caine explained at a press briefing on June 26.

At Fordow, B-2 stealth bombers also notably dropped all of the MOPs on just two impact points, with six bombs striking each one, successively burrowing down to the actual target below. Oh, and I did read that the president ordered to triple the production of them.
I do, actually, look at the cities in Ukraine - and your statement makes me think you don't. In Kyiv it's actually (mostly) business as usual - public transit operates, garbage gets collected, cafes are full of people - other than the occasional air raid and the ubiqitous sightings of military vehicles and people in uniform, you'd hardly know there's a war going on at all. Same goes for most other Ukrainian cities, TBH.
This is because most of the public infrastructure in Japanese cities was made of wood, which made it very susceptible to carpet bombing using incendiary munitions. None of which is true in the case of Iran (and besides, carpet bombing is not a thing anymore).
I don't think Dresden or Berlin was mostly wood.
Saying "that's what happened in WW2 in Japan, so therefore that's what's gonna hapen now in Iran" is utterly ludicrous.
I'm not saying it's gonna happen. I'm saying it could. I do think weapons have advanced quite a bit since WWII.
 
You sir, quite simply are the one with no idea of what you speak.
Perhaps. That is not for me to decide. I can only present my subjective opinion, and since you invoked Dresden, allow me to once again emphasize that carpet bombing is not a thing anymore. The US has neither the doctrine nor the assets to be able to inflict that kind of damage on an enemy city.

Now, this might change in the future, but as of right now that's where we stand. No, you cannot "bomb Iran into the stone age".

The debate should be over will. Does the USA will it to happen? Are we ready to accept the consequences of our actions. The US has lacked the will to totally commit to the destruction and defeat of an enemy since Japan in WW2.
I'm gonna say that's a big fat no. In fact, the two words which come to mind when describing the US' reaction to ongoing global events are "impotent rage". Unlike your adversaries, the US is not even seriously preparing for WW3. Which brings me to the conclusion that you're gonna lose. 💁‍♂️

We lack the will. We just don’t want to be bad. We collectively fear being evil.
I agree you lack the will. I do not, however, agree that it's because you "fear being evil". My take is as follows: you've (collectively) grown fat, complacent and risk-averse. That's the core reason behing the grotesque - and futile - "peacemaking" moves such as the Trump/Putin summit. The sad truth is, Americans are neither interested in, nor prepared to, fight a war against a genuine enemy that poses a real threat. :(
 
How sad, US soldiers on their knees for Putin. How pathetic. Trump forcing US soldiers to pucker up for Putin.
“Bad screen grab”, nah only a coward is on their knees next to Putins plane. Shouldn’t have ever been in such a weak and sad position in front of the Russians make us look like the biggest soy boys since France in WW2
 
Perhaps. That is not for me to decide. I can only present my subjective opinion, and since you invoked Dresden, allow me to once again emphasize that carpet bombing is not a thing anymore. The US has neither the doctrine nor the assets to be able to inflict that kind of damage on an enemy city.
This is a joke right? Gotta be! :ROFLMAO:

Now, this might change in the future, but as of right now that's where we stand. No, you cannot "bomb Iran into the stone age".

I'm gonna say that's a big fat no. In fact, the two words which come to mind when describing the US' reaction to ongoing global events are "impotent rage". Unlike your adversaries, the US is not even seriously preparing for WW3. Which brings me to the conclusion that you're gonna lose. 💁‍♂️

Good God man! THERE ARE NO WINNERS IN WWIII!


I agree you lack the will. I do not, however, agree that it's because you "fear being evil". My take is as follows: you've (collectively) grown fat, complacent and risk-averse. That's the core reason behing the grotesque - and futile - "peacemaking" moves such as the Trump/Putin summit. The sad truth is, Americans are neither interested in, nor prepared to, fight a war against a genuine enemy that poses a real threat. :(

Let someone attack the homeland and you'll see if Americans have the will or not.
 
Perhaps. That is not for me to decide. I can only present my subjective opinion, and since you invoked Dresden, allow me to once again emphasize that carpet bombing is not a thing anymore. The US has neither the doctrine nor the assets to be able to inflict that kind of damage on an enemy city.
Truth that wanders into not.

We will not (until we do) destroy a city conventionally block to block, cracking, cinder blocks and breaking bricks anymore. It’s very expensive. It doesn’t leave anything left to conquer and it looks bad, especially if you lose.


We absolutely have the assets to inflict that damage (I’m assuming we are talking about Firestorms, block to block destruction of even bricks or both in a major city) It would be even easier then Berlin or Tokyo.

The gold standard in destruction, Tokyo was it fact burned to the ground. But this did not happen over night. Without googling I believe it took 3 days of mixed load bombing.

We can do it in an hour, maybe less depending on how far into the weeds you want to go. I’m mean we can hit a city and have fighter aircraft (whose payloads can exceed those of WW2 Heavy Bombers) hitting those hard to reach spots and edges, with gunships rippling W/P, rinse repeat. But sticking with strategic assets let’s say overnight.

Faster than you marinate a chicken.

You are absolutely correct that absent something especially vile such as kidnapping and then executing the first family live on TV while the masses dance in the streets or some horrifically awful biological weapon the USA lacks the will to do this. I think this is a good thing and I believe that the savagery of those acts are a black mark and scar on humanities soul.

But we are so far past being able to do this, we need to be arguing How Many and How fast, not “could” we.
 
To quote Talleyrand - "It is worse than a crime: it is a mistake."

It all went pretty much as expected. Our modern-day Caligula is likely too far up his own arse to realize Putin just wiped the floor with him in front of the whole world. And given the fact that he chose to surround himself with crooks and lackeys - nobody has the courage to tell him.

The US has become a headless chicken. This is how nations fall.
Now now Biden had opportunities aswell.
NO US PRESIDENT could have done much better, considering they actually don't have sole independent government control. Putin was never going to do what they west expect anyway. He simply has no need or desire to. He knows he has all the cards. He will choose his decisions without internal or external pressures.
 
Perhaps. That is not for me to decide. I can only present my subjective opinion, and since you invoked Dresden, allow me to once again emphasize that carpet bombing is not a thing anymore. The US has neither the doctrine nor the assets to be able to inflict that kind of damage on an enemy city.
This is a joke right? Gotta be! :ROFLMAO:

Now, this might change in the future, but as of right now that's where we stand. No, you cannot "bomb Iran into the stone age".

I'm gonna say that's a big fat no. In fact, the two words which come to mind when describing the US' reaction to ongoing global events are "impotent rage". Unlike your adversaries, the US is not even seriously preparing for WW3. Which brings me to the conclusion that you're gonna lose. 💁‍♂️

Good God man! THERE ARE NO WINNERS IN WWIII!


I agree you lack the will. I do not, however, agree that it's because you "fear being evil". My take is as follows: you've (collectively) grown fat, complacent and risk-averse. That's the core reason behing the grotesque - and futile - "peacemaking" moves such as the Trump/Putin summit. The sad truth is, Americans are neither interested in, nor prepared to, fight a war against a genuine enemy that poses a real threat. :(

Let someone attack the homeland and you'll see if Americans have the will or not.
I recall 911 . The results of American revenge aswell.
And look at the permanent results today . Massive gains ,changes and lets us not forget deterrence. Never has there or will be another terrorist attack on America again 🤔 🫣🫡
1995 - 2015 =510 terrorists attacks = 3264 dead Americans. Regardless of US power - revenge.
 
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So under that rationale we should be making as many concessions to Putin as possible because of their stockpile of nuclear weapons?
Not concessions but you have to respect that those missiles exist. Do you know what a "Satan II ICBM would do to a city if it were ever used?"
We should go against what is right because they have nuclear weapons? How on Earth does that do anything but embolden Putin to make more and more nuclear threats and sabre rattling? You all can't simultaneously be okay with Trump and Medvedev playing nuclear hot potato
I'm not. I feel they are playing a very dangerous game.
with 8 billion lives and a couple extremely well armed submarines, and also against holding Putin accountable in the face of his bellicose threats. It's either one or the other, Peace through strength, or Peace through submission.

If you had actually read the statement released by Zelensky's office months prior to the meeting, or had just been been monitoring the UA administration at even the lowest capacity, then you would have known that he does not wear a suit, in HONOR OF ALL THOSE WHO HAVE FALLEN.
Good for him but when you come to the WH wear a suit. Honor those who have fallen by laying a wreath on a memorial.
Don't know why respecting the fallen defenders is such an odd concept to grasp for some on the right.
I do take offence at this statement. I am a US Marine till the day I die and have great respect for anyone who ever has put on the uniform of the USA or our allies. Hell, even some enemy warriors who fought for what they believe.
Honoring those who defend your freedom comes tenfold above honoring a man who has earned nothing in his life, and instead act's like the world needs to earn the right to have HIM. I'm sorry I've tried to be as cordial as possible but if you can't take the small amount of time to fact check yourself on the substance that you are writing than I feel this discussion is completely useless.
 
I recall 911 . The results of American revenge aswell.
And look at the permanent results today . Massive gains ,changes and lets us not forget deterrence. Never has there or will be another terrorist attack on America again 🤔 🫣🫡
1995 - 2015 =510 terrorists attacks = 3264 dead Americans. Regardless of US power - revenge.
And how many attacks at the scale of 9/11 has there been. O 💪
 
While Democrats scream that ANY meeting with Putin is “treason”…World leaders are PRAISING Trump’s Alaska summit. They’re calling it a glimmer of hope to END the war in Ukraine.
UK Prime Minister Keir Starmer:
“President Trump’s efforts have brought us closer than ever before to ending Russia’s illegal war in Ukraine. His leadership… should be commended.”
German Chancellor Friedrich Merz:
“No territorial negotiations over Ukraine’s head. That is good news.”Translation: Trump didn’t sell out Ukraine.He forced Putin to the table WITHOUT caving.
Italian PM Giorgia Meloni:
“A glimmer of hope has finally opened to discuss peace in Ukraine.”
French President Macron:
"U.S. leadership is essential for lasting security."
Polish PM Donald Tusk:
“Today it is even clearer that Russia respects only the strong. ”And that’s why Putin fears Trump — but mocked Biden.
The President called Zelensky shortly after the summit. They'll meet in Washington on Monday. That’s how peace gets built:
America leading
Allies included
No secret deals behind closed doors
The Democrats refused to meet with Putin at all. Peace was impossible.
Meeting Putin = weakness
Talking peace = betrayal
Diplomacy = treason
 
but this is why putting people with the IQ of a retarded kindergarten kid and zero
And this is why you read the news with a bias. Trump has talked about a draw down but no draw downs had been enacted.
 
It’s called cognitive bias, screen captures are posted as indicative of proof of some imaginary reality.
Just posting a screen capture and describing it as proof of some imagined genuflection is absurd to the point of being fake news.
I call it grasping for obligatory straws. Not to defend reality, but rather to defend personal cognitive biases.

I make this claim in light of the military displays made upon Putin arrival. From the red carpet being passed through a squadron of fifth gen Attack/Fighter jets. To the flyover of a B-2 bomber with four fifth generation A/F.
Clearly not an attempt to genuflect for the Dread Pirate Putin.
To the public statements made in response to the meeting between Putin and Trump by European leaders.
But is is so contrary individual cognitive biases it is simply impossible to distinguish reality from imagined beliefs.
 
I don't presume to have precise comprehension of who my adversaries are, or what they believe. None of us do. I'm merely explaining what it looks like on the outside. 💁‍♂️

In fact, I don't even mind the personal attack - clearly this is a heated discussion, so allowances must be made. :)
Your mistake is assuming your on the outside, and in not comprehending what your post are actually communicating
 
🤣😂🤣 how many before?
911 was a false flag. Evidence surfaces buildings bought down by demolition. Obviously terrorists organised explosives in buildings prior to attack should planes fail. Even a building not hit by planes falls the same way as twin towers. Perfectly straight inline . Any building with structural damage on one side falls that side. Countless testimonies from emergency services and general public state explosions at base and other levels. Video footage confirms detonations and massive steel supports being ejected from side while majority falls straight. Traces of sulphur etc found everywhere. Concrete turned to dust. Not floors piled.
Melting Steel- temperatures never recorded so high even with jet fuel that wouldn't have ignited at base of buildings. Wait 30 yrs or longer for truth to be revealed 🤔. Like a small vile as evidence of wmd. Or Biden health deterriation. Granted they didn't take as long. But other subjects are for good reasons.
Epstein files don't exist?
Jfk assassination and others?
Yeah some prefer the escape of question more by simple branding ( conspiracy theory).
Some aren't interested in knowing.
Some aren't interested in embarrassment from belief.
Denial - plausible denial.
Deny deny deny used by many,not just general public either. Everything goes away eventually given enough time 🤞😉. Pity enemies and allies can't believe that. So such a well thought out plan by a terrorist group since the last massive terrorist attack was what time frame? It may well be that long again? It isn't like home made explosives in back packs or vehicles, those are so much simpler. Or a handful of people with guns in a seige or attacks in different locations. 911 was an absolutely amazingly powerful effort. Extremely skilled pilots that must have had previous training besides what they received from US flight schools. Many many questions unanswered? Why? Personally I find it disgusting dismissing questions and witnesses from all walks of life , especially emergency service personnel. Than again military personnel and commercial pilots have been mocked for decades over unidentified flying objects, how is coming along nowadays? Tic tac hoax? Those poor pilots so many before them. Fuel fumes are highly hallucinogenic whether people are in ground, air or water capable vehicles. And swamp gas will be detected in deserts in the future. 😉🫣🤭
There are few discussions where 9/11 conspiracy theories are helpful.
 
How sad, US soldiers on their knees for Putin. How pathetic. Trump forcing US soldiers to pucker up for Putin.
“Bad screen grab”, nah only a coward is on their knees next to Putins plane. Shouldn’t have ever been in such a weak and sad position in front of the Russians make us look like the biggest soy boys since France in WW2
I didn’t think TDS was actually real until I had to read all the new posts. Several of you with normally sane views, even far to the left have succumbed. Creditable people who have lost the ability to exercise critical thinking and are instead stuck on “Orange man bad” over and over. That screen shot is the biggest pile of bullshit any of you have tried to pass off yet since the Russians invaded Ukraine.

It is stupidly asinine. I would expect that from 3rd graders, maybe second.

The USA is not at war with Russia. In fact we have full diplomatic relations and missions. The leader of the third* most powerful country in the world is not meet with infantile disrespect. Long running protocols are followed in each meeting. Why? Because we are not at war with Russia.

If you truly believe those airmen were genuflecting to Putin, IMO you are beyond reasoning and cannot be considered to be thoughtful, insightful or even grounded in reality. It makes me sad.


* Personally I think with their pathetic performance in the Ukraine it’s clear Russia would probably not be in the top five if not for their aging (and unsupportable) legacy inventory of nuclear weapons. I want to put them behind India but the sheer number of fizzle pops they can attempt to fire is still a viable threat.
 
The leader of the third* most powerful country in the world is not meet with infantile disrespect. Long running protocols are followed in each meeting. Why? Because we are not at war with Russia.
You're also not at war with Ukraine (which you keep calling "the Ukraine" for some reason). And yet the leader of that country is met with infantile disrespect in DC. Got anything to say about that?

As noted above, I'll ignore the personal slurs. Feel free to insult me some more if that makes you feel happy, Mr. DWS Staff Member. :giggle:
 
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