America Being the Worlds Policeman

Train

Active member
Ok I can tell you right now this post is going to get deleted and I could give a shit.
But this is a fundamental discussion
we in america must have about the reasons we engage in ANY future conflict. I am sick to fucking death with Banana Wars.

I fully support a strong robust and fucking dangerous military. Period - full stop.
But we were allegedly trying to spread democracy in Afghanistan, Iraq, then we were going to liberate Libya, then we were going to right the injustices of Syria. And Let’s not forget Vietnam.
All of these are prime examples of “spreading democracy” and anything else you want to call it.

I’m not being hostile towards you regarding that. But these all turned out to be either poorly conceived policies or poorly executed ones.

I do however take extreme exception to your reasoning for being the world policeman or power broker “to spread globalization”
You measure the risk, the cost, and the blood of American servicemen as worth it to so we can have more economic security and comfort!
That is fucking obscene!

Globalization is in its self not a bad thing but to send Americans to die in desert shit holes so life can be economically better or comfortable at home. And don’t you dare exclude the motives of corporations and investment bankers. Or corrupt politicians who make millions on the side voting for this “wealth security”
removed personal attack aside, I rarely agree with you but I think you hit the nail on the head this time.

The whole “world police” idea is ridiculous. I see no reason why the US should either have to or want to do it other than flexing for the world to see (then getting embarrassed when it doesn't work out).

America is still the only superpower (for now), and the world knows it. There’s no need to spend billions, if not trillions, of taxpayer dollars on endless wars at the other side of the world that do nothing to protect Americans. There’s far, far better things to spend money on - while still maintaining a strong military.
 

Obreid

Power Poster
Obreid just gave a somewhat modified version of the speech Smedly Butler gave about his career.
Somewhat on topic, China is denying that the reported hypersonic FOBS trial was that and said "its only a space vehicle".... well woah.....


I respectfully leave semantic niggling to those with far more patience than I have.

Anyone notice how the operational tempo of Mainland China incursions into the Taiwan ADIZ have dried up over the last few days? Have been looking at my Asia sources and have not seen anything recently mentioned. One wonders....
Regards
Major General Smedley Butler received the Medal of Honor twice and was the most decorated US Marine of his day.
Told Congress that “war is a racket”
It was then and still is today one of the most inconvenient truths spoken to power.
And less than 3% of the American public have ever heard about him, I wonder why?
 

DarkNoon

Power Poster
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DarkNoon

Power Poster
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expat42451

Active member
Couple of things. I personally think anyone reflecting on current and recent US foreign activities would be very well served spending time both giving Dwight Eisenhower's final speech a critical listen....and reading the Federalist Papers and doing the historical research needed to understand the intent with which they were penned. I have a world of respect for our military but I do not have a military background. That having been said from my perspective, I believe that recent military activity arguably is not what the forefathers intended for the nation they were building.

Additionally with some 30 years of watching the financial system,trying to understand money flow and trading my own small accounts in various markets with limited success I do believe that the United States can not continue on the current path of deficit spending and military adventurism for long without serious direct consequences for everyone. Indeed it can be argued that the consequences of running huge deficits are already underway given inflation of almost everything across the board in the American way of life. Creeping Poverty, endemic homelesness, failing infrastructure, tragic and criminal VA treatment of returning veterans (one of my closest friends was on a bird farm, seeing the treatment he does not get with ongoing chronic illness is absolutely enraging to me) and a lack of any measurable consequence for both openly criminal activities in our government and the American populace's total lack of will to hold those elected to represent them to any accountability for deception and lies can be well compared to what Gibbon penned in his erudite history "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" vol's 3, 4 and 5. It is ALL of our responsibility to, in an effort to maintain the republic, be conversant with our history, make rational decisions about what we support outside of the purposeful polarization undertaken by both the 4th estate news media and the sewer that is most things social media..and we had better damned well start looking across aisles and boundaries to each other for common cause outside of the many times false walls built to divide us. The republic is being destroyed from within and if we do not start holding those who supposedly represent us to acount....account based on principles outlined in the Federalist Papers.... then there will be nothing left to save.
/rant off...back on topic
 

DarkNoon

Power Poster
Globalization is in its self not a bad thing but to send Americans to die in desert shit holes so life can be economically better or comfortable at home.
They go hand & hand unfortunately. You can't have a great global military power without a great financial system backing it anymore.

Russia tried to make a global power without the money flow behind it and failed miserably even collapsed because of it. Yes there are other factors in USSR collapse but the biggest one was trying to assert global military power without the money to back it in the end making their people suffer because of it.

American soldiers died for our freedom and security. Financial freedom & security also falls under that. So America soldiers shouldn't fight for a better life for Americans?

Because what truly makes America great and the American life the envy of the world is our financial security as a nation and all the life saving financial benefits for the American people we receive from the poorest to the richest in the nation.
 

DarkNoon

Power Poster
They go hand & hand unfortunately. You can't have a great global military power without a great financial system backing it anymore.

Russia tried to make a global power without the money flow behind it and failed miserably even collapsed because of it. Yes there are other factors in USSR collapse but the biggest one was trying to assert global military power without the money to back it in the end making their people suffer because of it.

American soldiers died for our freedom and security. Financial freedom & security also falls under that. So America soldiers shouldn't fight for a better life for Americans?

Because what truly makes America great and the American life the envy of the world is our financial security as a nation and all the life saving financial benefits for the American people we receive from the poorest to the richest in the nation.
Maybe not so much Iraq or Afghanistan, but parking our ass in Europe, controlling the narrative in South America, or puppeteering Asian markets for us since WWII this is all necessary.

If you say otherwise your lying. Do you enjoy everything you have in your life? Enjoy the car & highways you drive on? Enjoy texting on your new phone you buy every year? Enjoy the abundance of food anywhere you go in America? Enjoy social security? Enjoy any other benefits the government may provide you? Enjoy flipping a switch knowing the light will come on everytime? Enjoy some of the world's best consistent medical care? Feel good n safe raising your child in America vs anywhere else in the world?

Everything Americans have was only made possible through being the world police and creating our global system to make our lives more secure financially in every aspect.
 

Obreid

Power Poster
If you say otherwise your lying.
I’ll say it again, you say I’m lying,
Well Riff Raff he can kiss my ___!
I’m done with this pussy footing around lame excuses to bleed Americans, and making the world hate us.
We do not need to spill American blood all over the world to make the world safe. Let the nations of the world make their own damm nations safe.
And as far as the economic prosperity excuse
That just another name for banana wars.
America was prosperous long BEFORE we ever got involved in the jungles and deserts across the globe.
We’re doing the same thing the British did in the 18th century and it wasn’t capitalism it was mercantilism.
The only people to profit from those wars are corporations and big money that wanted access to those resources and cheap labor.
It’s a racket and we’re done with it.
If those places are so important let the bankers and corporations hire their own armies give up their citizenship and move there.
It’s not complicated. Stop using the blood of American serviceman and women to secure global resources and markets and force the American way down the throats of everyone.

Be the example of the American way.
Not the failures of Britannia.

What your suggesting is akin to sending workers into the mine and working them till they die in an accident and then excusing it as being good for the economy, its just a cost of doing business.
Slavery was the cost of doing business for most of the historic period until some people said enough.
The cost has been too high and we need to ask this question again before we ever get involved in another war.
 

Obreid

Power Poster
So America soldiers shouldn't fight for a better life for Americans?
NO! They should fight to defend the nation from aggression. NOT financial prosperity.
That’s what kings expected conscripts to do.
Tell a Seal or marine to their face their going to war to improve the financial prosperity of america
 

Obreid

Power Poster
Enjoy any other benefits the government may provide you? Enjoy flipping a switch knowing the light will come on everytime? Enjoy some of the world's best consistent medical care? Feel good n safe raising your child in America vs anywhere else in the world?
None of those things have anything to do with war. Unless we have been attacked and being directly threatened.

If we have to send young Americans all over the globe to die to secure those things at home we have failed as a nation.
 

DarkNoon

Power Poster
None of those things have anything to do with war.
To a degree, things I listed completely depend and where completely built by us being the world banking system and police. It didn't happen by not forcing the world to build the mechanisms & cooperate with US aka the global financial supremacy/superpower US of A.

We metaphorically sit ontop of the world every American citizen does even the poorest among us compared to the rest of the world. I think that was worth fighting for even if politics dirtied the idea up.
 
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expat42451

Active member
It can be successfully argued that those of us participating here are all bound by a common desire and interest….in seeing our republic and way of life preserved not only for ourselves but those after us. I believe that it may be argued that the existence of the collection of essays known as the Federalist Papers were a means of our forefathers not only finding common ground in what they believed, in what they wanted for the nation they were trying to build…. But also that the Federalist Papers were a means of RESPECTFULLY disagreeing in a civil manner. That they had skin in the game is indisputable. All were risking their lives, the lives of their families, their fortunes and their futures in coming to some common objective borne of diverse, sometimes conflicting opinions of the path forward. That they would work to find common ground and disagree respectfully was a measure of the civility that our culture no longer has and any culture must maintain to have any sense of unity. In concentrating on differences rather than remembering to recognize commonality...the example being why we all participate here….. serves to undermine the commonality that we all have, that of an interest in and desire to preserve our republic, our way of life and pass that to future generations. Expressing sometimes thinly veiled insults or open hostility toward another’s opinion is dividing rather than unifying, signifies a lack of respect for a differing viewpoint and more importantly is a choosing to self limit one’s own intellect -by an unwillingness to consider something other than what one “thinks” to be correct. When this happens, discussion reverts to only dealing with superficiality of things discussed, unable to examine underlying causes by either side due to the perceived need to “defend from attack”. In that event no new knowledge or different approach to problems is possible and the discussion serves no purpose.



I would argue that each of us here has equally as much skin in the game at this point in our history as did our forefathers albeit that circumstances are very different. I also think that bickering and insults are nothing more than throwing shit against a wall to see what sticks, rather than concentrating on constructive discussion based on different opinion…. leading to needed change. Bickering especially now is a waste of time...time that we have almost no more of.

As far as the globalist question that has come to head in this discussion if one wants to make a coherent judgement -- recommended reading is Friedman's "The Lexus and the Olive Tree" and Robert Kaplan's "The Coming Anarchy"....for further information look at the ratios of service economy to manufacturing economy as a % of GDP for the years 1950-2020. Then look outside your window at whats happened to our society, culture and way of life since we allowed multi nationals to offshore manufacturing and other vital interests using lobbyists and campaign contributions to purchase legislators. I thought globalism attractive until I saw how NAFTA created poverty in both the US and Mexico. No more.

From Obreid
Slavery was the cost of doing business for most of the historic period until some people said enough.
The cost has been too high and we need to ask this question again before we ever get involved in another war.
exactly correct. Our forefathers had a much more recent generational and cultural memory of what happened in the various pogroms of Europe than do we. Even more reason to pay attention to what they outlined as a way forward for a new nation today.

Out of respect for all here, if one wishes to debate the role of super power or world policeman, if the moderators wont suggest it, I certainly will. Start another thread for that topic. This thread is China/Taiwan October. A thread that those of us interested in what is going on with that hot spot use to share information on that subject.

Regards
 
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Obreid

Power Poster
To a degree, things I listed completely depend and where completely built by us being the world banking system and police. It didn't happen by not forcing the world to build the mechanisms & cooperate with US aka the global financial supremacy/superpower US of A.

We metaphorically sit ontop of the world every American citizen does even the poorest among us compared to the rest of the world. I think that was worth fighting for even if politics dirtied the idea up.
So your saying Americans have to die in remote corners of the world so we can be king of the mountain?
We’re we america before globalist decided we needed to be an empire.

Defend our allies defend our boarders and nations
Make our economy strong thru industry not gunboat diplomacy.
 

DarkNoon

Power Poster
so we can be king of the mountain?
It's what makes us unique and most prosperous nation on earth.

How else do you think we can build such a advanced massive bloated military & build up our allies?
We can't take over the world, but we can certainly shape it to our needs to make the world a safer more prosperous world for Americans now and in the future.


We have made it apart of being a superpower. Or at least one to be successful, stable, and safe.

Without controlling the money flow or wealth somehow around the world you won't be a superpower for long and history has shown us just that over and over.

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I don't like the idea much either. But we can't have our cake and eat it too as a massive superpower.

But shaping the world & its markets sometimes by force has proven vastly effective over the century. You can't have the things you want or want our country to do without puppeteering the global markets to fund such a massive military and social net for all Americans.
 
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DarkNoon

Power Poster
So your saying Americans have to die in remote corners of the world so we can be king of the mountain?
Saddly yes and it makes me sick to think we are sending our people to die over money but that is the only way to keep things up to keep us truly safe and secure our nations children's future to make sure they grow up to have everything they will need and more.

The world has changed dramatically in just the past century and any historical factors are almost irrelevant because almost every issue is in uncharted territory.

In order to keep the country and our allies strong we need to keep a strong arm in the global financial markets and sometimes by force shape it how we need it in order to maintain our military, allies, and social net.
 
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