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Canada fans booed our National Anthem

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OReid said:
I continue really admired the Japanese.
They came up on the losing end of a very brutal war for all involved.
Their are or had been an isolated ancient island culture with some significant cultural differences with much of the rest of the world.
Yet they have been able to adapt and mold who they will become and how they integrate with the rest of the world.
And even though they are not always the most flashy military partner with the west they have still generally been there in some form. They don’t bitch and make public displays of tisk tisk.
They do what they think they can do, and do it while not talk about it.
Generally it’s a pretty good description of a neighbor one would like to have.

Please don’t assail me with the many failures of the Japanese, I know they’re far from perfect. But compared to the hot mess of some of our European allies. It’s hands down.

Ask yourself this in today’s geopolitical world. Which is seriously a greater danger, Europe or Asia? Which of those two continental regions have more pitfalls or cliffs to drive off.
Should we continue to carry a majority percent of NATO’s cost?
I AM not saying the US should bail on NATO.
But maybe just maybe the US’s efforts would produce better stratigic and economic results focusing on IndoPacCom.
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A very good summary and consideration. Actually strongly support what you have said as I agree with the points you noted. It is showing deep reflective stance.
 
Yingyang said:
Regardless of American and English support militarily if China wants Australia China gets Australia. No one can stop that. American local naval forces would be severely depleted on the way through, and America would not use nuclear weapons like ww2 as a deterrence simply because they risk nuclear strikes themselves over an allie in the middle of nowhere. Ww2 4 weeks old school everything for Japan to reach Australia. Our allies mouths are appreciated by most but some realise attempted actions would most likely be a failure due to distance.
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Yingyang has it right but China has slowly already been taking Australia via economic means making a military approach less necessary. At times I question how much will it affect local populations and will it be for the better or worse. There are sure to be aspects that will be better while others will be worse. The goal for Australia is survival in what is effectively changing world without the loss of individual identity.
 
Torch said:
So many lives were saved with those two bombs that it is ineffable. “No quarter asked, none given”
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This is the challenge of wise foreign policy and in this regard President Harry Truman got it right but I cannot help but wonder how the decision weighed on his conscious and life after that. Would be a tough decision that I would never like having to have made and would not wish it on anyone. Decide which was the least worst option.
 
Torch said:
My Grandfather was in the Air Corps flying into Germany in bombers in the daylight.

He said the only time he cried lwas when, after landing in the states they were put on trains for the west coast. As they approached California word had of the Atomic strikes.

They were briefed to expect 1,000,000 US casualties (more than the total in the first wave. They were told that they would, after facing the Japanese soldiers, the would face attacks by spears and suicide vests. Then were then told to kill everyone that was not already subjugated including women and children. All flight crews could expect summary beheading. Aircrews would be forced to guard their own bases as the personnel from army/navy too scarce.

In short they were told to fight and kill the women and children they came across until Japan surrender.

As they finally arrived <west coast name eludes moi> and instead of getting on transports they were processed out and return to the trains for home. No 80% casualties. Little occupation force (relatively).

He said he cried on the way how and never since (as of 1992) We would have had to use poison gas if it became a fight. Many many TONS of it were taken to the Japanese AO.

So many lives were saved with those two bombs that it is ineffable. “No quarter asked, none given”
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There is also the preexisting and escalating scope of Russ/Japanese war. To this day there is still a contested island north of Japan. A partitioned and divided Japan would have been bad.
 
Dr Arthur said:
Yingyang has it right but China has slowly already been taking Australia via economic means making a military approach less necessary. At times I question how much will it affect local populations and will it be for the better or worse. There are sure to be aspects that will be better while others will be worse. The goal for Australia is survival in what is effectively changing world without the loss of individual identity.
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The problem for the west in general is sustaining viable population numbers.
A nation or culture cannot orientate to negative population growth.
Then seek to correct that with massive immigration influx. And hope that their cultures, norms, and laws remain the same.

Ive posted about how negative population growth is a problem for Russia. Not enough Russians Russia stops being Russia.

Timing of these generational numbers shift also might be effecting decisions regarding expansion

China has had to abandon in part their one child policy. They might be facing an upside down population pyramid in 2-3 decades from now.
 
Yingyang said:
Regardless of American and English support militarily if China wants Australia China gets Australia. No one can stop that. American local naval forces would be severely depleted on the way through, and America would not use nuclear weapons like ww2 as a deterrence simply because they risk nuclear strikes themselves over an allie in the middle of nowhere. Ww2 4 weeks old school everything for Japan to reach Australia. Our allies mouths are appreciated by most but some realise attempted actions would most likely be a failure due to distance.
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There is, literally, no scenario in today's world where China attacks Australia, they have absolutely nothing to gain from it. They gain far, far, more having Australia as a friendly(ish) trading partner than they do as an occupying forces (which would be logistically impossible for a multitude of reasons).

The only people who postulate that it might happen are Americans, as part of the ant-China narrative. It is absolutrely laughable.
 
Gaijin said:
There is, literally, no scenario in today's world where China attacks Australia, they have absolutely nothing to gain from it. They gain far, far, more having Australia as a friendly(ish) trading partner than they do as an occupying forces (which would be logistically impossible for a multitude of reasons).

The only people who postulate that it might happen are Americans, as part of the ant-China narrative. It is absolutrely laughable.
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So no strategic advantage, no resource advantage. As you say nothing to gain. Americans narrative got it . Only Western Propaganda I've heard from America about China is the agression shown to close neighbours or Western allies in close proximity. Oh and Taiwan Taiwan Taiwan Philippines. My opinion hasn't been based on anything or anyone else. My opinion is based simply on full control of area between Mainland China down to south pole. Logistically impossible today ? Yet possible by Japan in ww2 if atomic bombs weren't used or mass chemical weapons. Comparing a small island like Japan to a mainland size country of China i do find difficult especially considering time difference between such conflicts, military size, new technology etc etc. Australia is a large advantage to have full control of. Mass farm land untapped by our own government with many climates , mass natural resources-fresh water,oil,gas,rare earth,uranium, gold, coal the list is long, mass fisheries, mass strategic gain aswell. The growth and power opportunities are huge with little to no resistance in comparison to any other country of comparison on the planet. Grab Australia you gain south pole .Grab Australia you take your time dealing with Indonesia, Malaysia etc after as now you have flanked them without conflict unlike Japan who did the hard yards and still could have succeeded as Australia was the last in island chain. You are mostly correct about your view on American narrative-propaganda even though I've heard nothing of Australia being a target of Chinese occupation at all ever.
Looking at Chinese naval and air growth in a very short time period absolutely doesn't equal necessity for Taiwan, not even close. Not even agression and or defence capabilities against West and Chinese neighbours.
This build up of military is absolutely overkill for such issues. There is definitely a much much bigger picture here than what is being portrayed even by America and the west.
Common sense with what they are doing and their capabilities and capacity growth absolutely tells a different story. We all have different opinions, thanks for yours and to others like yours. I said Ukraine couldn't win from the start. % chance yrs later still in my favour and growing. The west gets it wrong even with small countries with less defence, technological capabilities, weapons and man power. My opinion on China is should they be planning what I think or not they will probably make their move between 2027-2030. I'm leaning 27.
 
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China’s new version for the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere is the “China for China plan” involves Australia playing the parts of Kansas and New Jersey*.

*Non Americans:
Kansas: endless crop land and a damn fine band
New Jersey: a torpent spew of pollutants
 
Torch said:
My Grandfather was in the Air Corps flying into Germany in bombers in the daylight.

He said the only time he cried lwas when, after landing in the states they were put on trains for the west coast. As they approached California word had of the Atomic strikes.

They were briefed to expect 1,000,000 US casualties (more than the total in the first wave. They were told that they would, after facing the Japanese soldiers, the would face attacks by spears and suicide vests. Then were then told to kill everyone that was not already subjugated including women and children. All flight crews could expect summary beheading. Aircrews would be forced to guard their own bases as the personnel from army/navy too scarce.

In short they were told to fight and kill the women and children they came across until Japan surrender.

As they finally arrived <west coast name eludes moi> and instead of getting on transports they were processed out and return to the trains for home. No 80% casualties. Little occupation force (relatively).

He said he cried on the way how and never since (as of 1992) We would have had to use poison gas if it became a fight. Many many TONS of it were taken to the Japanese AO.

So many lives were saved with those two bombs that it is ineffable. “No quarter asked, none given”
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Edit: obviously my spellchecker wasn’t working this day, not my finest hour.
 
Gargolu said:
Join america in peace or be forced by china to be ruled by them. you may hate america but face it america is the best superpower for military might and great TV.
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The French really like our movies I hear.

I hate to make the claim outloud that American is the best nation for the job of world hegemonic superpower.
1 we haven’t always made the correct decisions or taken the right actions.
2 I was raised to believe boasting is either rude or it is a sign of serious insecurity.

But you’re correct I can see no scenario where China would be a good option. As an American I often times wish this power and responsibility never became our task.

But it is always the reality in power dynamic situations that someone or some entity will always always percolate into that position. Either by need or greed. So as the saying goes “if someone’s going to shape the way forward then better us than some of the alternatives”.
 
Gaijin said:
There is, literally, no scenario in today's world where China attacks Australia, they have absolutely nothing to gain from it. They gain far, far, more having Australia as a friendly(ish) trading partner than they do as an occupying forces (which would be logistically impossible for a multitude of reasons).

The only people who postulate that it might happen are Americans, as part of the ant-China narrative. It is absolutrely laughable.
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Exactly right and they already have too many economic interests to loose and are quite happy to buy what they want.
 
Gaijin said:
There is, literally, no scenario in today's world where China attacks Australia, they have absolutely nothing to gain from it. They gain far, far, more having Australia as a friendly(ish) trading partner
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Dr Arthur said:
Exactly right and they already have too many economic interests to loose and are quite happy to buy what they want.
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I wonder if Tiny little Japan fell into that category? Is the AU going to let China put troops in New Guinea?
 
Gaijin said:
My wife is Japanese and I have learned not to fuck with them :ROFLMAO:
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Mine was a flaming redhead and I knew to never push to far or I was going to have to stand there and suffer a beat down. Possible including flying projectiles.
 
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