China threats nuclear first strike on Japan

Obreid

Power Poster
Talk about expansionist nations involves more than politics, may I suggest there is a universal principle at work, ie. high pressure will always tend to flow into low pressure. As China grows in population (now 3 children family size with funding from CCP), technology, economy, military, etc., this 'power' will flow into surrounding weaker areas. We see this power flowing to the east (Silk Road) to the south (India China border clashes), to the east, China Seas, Pacific Islands. We don't see it to the north because Russia is not weak. What America and its allies need to do is decide is the extent if any they will allow Chinese expansion into the Pacific area, and then create a power structure that will mitigate against this expansionist power without a war.
Russia is not weak. I agree but in terms of military numbers and geographic boarders they do have a real contested boarder. So how is it they are not weak?
They are not weak because possibly China knows that if they open a front on Russia or even boarder creep Russia will respond with any and all available measures.
MADD can be used against a opponent. Keep the aggression or incursions low key but constant. You gain physical territory as well as psychological wins. Your opponent chooses not to respond because they fear escalation. Rinse and repeat.
thats is the history of Situation with Taiwan the SCS and North Korea for last. 30 years.
And no chinas expansionist ambitions are not a response to US policy. If that was the case why do the chines fishing fleets swarm into fisheries all over the pacific. Most recently the Galapagos maritime protection area.
They themselves have said they do not recognize the rulings of international bodies. They outright rejected the ruling for the Philippines over fisheries.
 

DarkNoon

Power Poster
Russia is not weak.
Only thing I disagree with. Otherwise your comment was spot on...

From my career and colleagues in my sphere of sensitive discussions, the facts say Russia is more likely to collapse than D.P.R.K...... It's just with a very large military, its easy to project strength when your really on your knees.....

Just because a countries military is powerful doesn't make them not weak. In fact its Russias militarily ambitions weather upgrading forces or military campaigns are hurting them hard as it did to the lead up to the U.S.S.R collapse.

Even if Russian stability wasn't almost on par with north koreas,... Russian military wouldn't even stack up half way to the numbers the US has in every aspect,... even if you combined Chinas forces.

Trust me when I say this and read close, Putin and the federation itself is just one skip, one disaster, one economic hardship, one national embarrassment away from collapsing. It won't take much at all for the second collapse of the Russian Government in a century.

Now the biggest threat to a collapsed or collapsing Russian federation would be all their nukes. Wouldn't take much for terrorists in Central Asia or Middle East to go into Russia and take a few nuclear devices WHEN not if the federation collapses amid all the confusion and chaos.
 
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DarkNoon

Power Poster
What's sad is China has 400% more stability points than Russia. Chinas economy is very interconnected to the world, has many areas of economic prosperity, and there people have no real appetite for revolt.

On the other hand the exact opposite can be said for Russia. Russia has only one real source of income, oil. Where the opposite China has dozens of revenue in many different sectors of industries....

SEE Russia will collapse again. Poor planning, poor government, poor industries, poor diversity in economy, and the Russian people have a appetite for change. Where as the exact opposite can be said for China.
 

Ben Dhyani

Active member
Russia is not weak. I agree but in terms of military numbers and geographic boarders they do have a real contested boarder. So how is it they are not weak?
They are not weak because possibly China knows that if they open a front on Russia or even boarder creep Russia will respond with any and all available measures.
MADD can be used against a opponent. Keep the aggression or incursions low key but constant. You gain physical territory as well as psychological wins. Your opponent chooses not to respond because they fear escalation. Rinse and repeat.
thats is the history of Situation with Taiwan the SCS and North Korea for last. 30 years.
And no chinas expansionist ambitions are not a response to US policy. If that was the case why do the chines fishing fleets swarm into fisheries all over the pacific. Most recently the Galapagos maritime protection area.
They themselves have said they do not recognize the rulings of international bodies. They outright rejected the ruling for the Philippines over fisheries.
Re Russia, your position is more or less my understanding when I said Russia was not weak.
Re Pacific, I did not mean to imply that China's eastward expansion was a response to US policy except in the sense that this expansionist strategy will be molded by any resistance it finds. However their growing power will result in continuous probing and thus there is always the risk that this relatively low key aggression will ultimately result in an unintended war. Statistically, given the more incursions and other probing, the chances that something may go wrong increase.
 

DarkNoon

Power Poster
Russia was not weak.
Just do some research into the Russian economy, industry, government, and it's people. The federation can't hope to last no more than a decade.

Crazy but China has way more of a chance than Russia when it comes to continuity or continuation of government in the future.

(As much as people hate America due to jelosy mostly,..... America or its goverment is never going away unless the world itself ends period.)
 
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DarkNoon

Power Poster
It's just with a very large military, its easy to project strength when your really on your knees.....
It may seem crazy that such a country with a powerful military could collapse, but it happens and they said the same thing about U.S.S.R up till the end.

The current Russia Government didn't really fix any of the issues that lead to it's most recent collapse. So it is natural to say that it will happen again and likely sooner due to Putin who has the same ideals that lead the U.S.S.R to collapse in the first place......
 

Obreid

Power Poster
Their not weak because they are willing to use any means any weapon to defend their nation. If conventional weapons fail to stop any China military action they will respond.
Their strength is in their single mindedness. Our weakness is our division.
 

Saguenay

Active member
We really don't. There's a lot of that kind of thought running around, but these superweapons don't exist.

The military has said very clearly that any wargame with China over Taiwan ends badly for the U.S. There's no reason to think otherwise, given the sheer logistics of a fight over there plus that the U.S. public isn't willing to take casualties over Taiwan.

Taiwan is going to fall in a Chinese invasion.

If the U.S. really wants to save Taiwan, a better programme would be to just offer immigration to any Taiwanese who wants it. Do a brain drain. China can have Taiwan for the empty husk it would be.
More luck that it is on the side of Russia for the super weapons.

Russia's Terrifying Weapons: AVANGARD As it approaches its target, the glider can make tight course changes, making it "absolutely invulnerable to all missile defense systems," according to Russian authorities. Avangard strikes "like a meteorite, like a ball of fire". The power of the nuclear warhead on board the Avangard would be more than two megatons of TNT16.

Also, Russia announced this Monday, July 19 that it had successfully tested its new hypersonic Zircon cruise missile, part of the range of weapons developed by Moscow which ensures that they are unparalleled in the world.
 

RiffRaff

Deputy Director
Staff member
More luck that it is on the side of Russia for the super weapons.

Russia's Terrifying Weapons: AVANGARD As it approaches its target, the glider can make tight course changes, making it "absolutely invulnerable to all missile defense systems," according to Russian authorities. Avangard strikes "like a meteorite, like a ball of fire". The power of the nuclear warhead on board the Avangard would be more than two megatons of TNT16.

Also, Russia announced this Monday, July 19 that it had successfully tested its new hypersonic Zircon cruise missile, part of the range of weapons developed by Moscow which ensures that they are unparalleled in the world.
Russia and the US don't currently have any warheads in active service with a yield higher than 1 MT. Do you mean that multiple warheads would total 2 MT?
 

DarkNoon

Power Poster
Russia and the US don't currently have any warheads in active service with a yield higher than 1 MT. Do you mean that multiple warheads would total 2 MT?
Yes, the only reason why nuclear bomb yields got so big was due to the awful accuracy of the delivery systems. Now delivery systems with no aid weather from satellite or human intervention can strike their targets with deadly precision......

Its pricey to make big yield thermo nuclear bombs. So with improvements in accuracy the yields of all active nuclear weapons decreased immensely!
 

DEFCON Warning System

Director
Staff member
Also, Russia announced this Monday, July 19 that it had successfully tested its new hypersonic Zircon cruise missile, part of the range of weapons developed by Moscow which ensures that they are unparalleled in the world.
Russia is full of feldercarb. They often make these grand announcements but provide zero proof of this stuff actually working. Often, they will make these announcements right after the US unveils some advancement in tech. Russia will come out the next day and say "Oh yeah, we have stuff that can beat that."

Don't get me wrong. Russia is certainly working on developments. Just take it with an ocean-sized grain of salt whenever you see these "miraculous" systems that seem to come out of nowhere.
 
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DuckNCover

Guest
It happens what has always happened, they are going the build more nukes. Everybody.
 
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DuckNCover

Guest
@Saguenay I just wait for his new video on YT, he can't say: "there are no imminent nuclear threats this time. However ...."
Maybe then @DEFCON Warning System will realize
that this is not Defcon 5 anymore. It's Defcon 3
until this escalates into a full blown nuclear war!!!
 

DEFCON Warning System

Director
Staff member
I understand that you are having difficulty
to conceive that Russia develops weapons
superior to the USA, but I believe that is the reality.
Your opinions are tinged with American chauvinism
Russia was the first in space.
We're not talking missiles. We're talking weaponry. And Russia has always been behind. Currently, they have so much corruption they don't have the ability to make any real strides (outside of stealing tech).

This is not new information. Russia has always developed their propaganda faster than their military capabilities.
 

RiffRaff

Deputy Director
Staff member
I understand that you are having difficulty
to conceive that Russia develops weapons
superior to the USA, but I believe that is the reality.
Your opinions are tinged with American chauvinism
Russia was the first in space.
The United States spends more on defense than the combined total defense budgets of the next 11 countries, of which Russia's budget constitutes a minuscule amount. Russia isn't even second on the list. China is second by a long shot, then India. Russia comes in a distant fourth.

I generally don't like it when people spout off about all these super-secret-squirrel advanced weapons the US is supposed to have because most people have no clue what they're talking about, but if any country is going to have superior weaponry, it's going to be the United States. Hell, the F-117 Nighthawk was put into active service while I was still in high school, three years before the movie "Top Gun" was released, and it remained a highly classified aircraft for over five years even while in active service. They retired that aircraft 13 years ago (officially, anyway).

So, yeah, it's easy for me to believe that the US might have one or more advanced weapons platforms in active service right now about which we will know nothing for several years.

YOUR opinion is tinged with an inaccurate understanding of ancient history. Russia was not the first in space, the Soviet Union was, and that was seven decades ago, before most people here were even born. That country doesn't even exist now.

Check your attitude at the door the next time you log in to this forum.
 
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DuckNCover

Guest
The United States spends more on defense than the combined total defense budgets of the next 11 countries, of which Russia's budget constitutes a minuscule amount. Russia isn't even second on the list. China is second by a long shot, then India. Russia comes in a distant fourth.

A professional army is much more expensive than a conscript army, especially in countries with a low wage level and the purchasing power of the dollar has decreased significantly over the years.
Also recheck defense spending of today. https://www.globalfirepower.com/defense-spending-budget.php
And I doubt that these official figures are correct.

For example you can pay 100 chinese soldiers, for the price of single U.S. colonel rank O $85,669.
 

RiffRaff

Deputy Director
Staff member
A professional army is much more expensive than a conscript army, especially in countries with a low wage level and the purchasing power of the dollar has decreased significantly over the years.
Also recheck defense spending of today. https://www.globalfirepower.com/defense-spending-budget.php
And I doubt that these official figures are correct.
There is some truth to that, and that means there is wiggle room in who's spending what and getting the most return for what they're spending.

However, a professionally paid career military combined with devaluation of the dollar is still not enough to explain away a 3/4 trillion dollar budget, and I think my original statement that the US is more capable of funding and hiding development of secret advanced weapons platforms than our opponents are is still valid.
 
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DuckNCover

Guest
President Joe Biden warned that if the U.S. ended up in a ‘real shooting war’ with a ‘major power’ it could be the result of a significant cyber attack on the country, highlighting what Washington sees as growing threats posed by Russia and China.
 

DarkNoon

Power Poster
There is some truth to that, and that means there is wiggle room in who's spending what and getting the most return for what they're spending.

However, a professionally paid career military combined with devaluation of the dollar is still not enough to explain away a 3/4 trillion dollar budget, and I think my original statement that the US is more capable of funding and hiding development of secret advanced weapons platforms than our opponents are is still valid.
Not saying we have super weapons... But every single thing China or Russia "claim" to create or have,... the US has had for a long time & only reason why Russia or China have such technology is because they ripped it off from the west.

I am glad to see my work and my government work to conceal the true power or nature of our military might is secret. TRUST ME the US government wants you to think where not as advanced. It's a trick to our enemies we have been doing since the cold war.

Only China and Russia brag, never really see the US do that. :) US has no need to brag because whatever China or Russia are claiming to build we have had for sometime and is likely already deployable on a large scale from a US standpoint.
 
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