EU & US the Greatest Logest Peacetime and Prosperity Our Undoing

[Suncile]

Western Europe or Mainland US not faced direct foreign invasion or military offensive in a very long time from another nation state. This made our populations ignorant or naive to their surroundings. In another way to articulate is many fail to acknowledge problems outside their bubble.

Can't solve problem if you don't know about it. The issue today is leaders with a lack of experince or understanding of what a real "great" war like. Global catastrophe & great sacrifice durring WWII shaped the minds of the entire generation that fought it and many after to prevent such a event again by great lengths. That is now gone only relatable to most just on paper or what Hollywood portrays.

Are we walking right into our demise? Slowly becoming "dumb & domesticated" metaphorically speaking by our own doing. Gaining technological advances is one thing. But losing important remembrances & experiences is dangerous I think. If you don't know or understand somthing, how can you avoid it or fix it?

Thoughts?

 

[RiffRaff]

Valid assessment. Americans, by and large, remain extremely ignorant of the world outside their borders and especially of global history that predates the existence of the US by thousands of years. My guess is 50% of Americans would not be able to point to Ukraine on a map, let alone discuss its long history with the rest of Europe and Russia. Even fewer Americans would know the significance of the Budapest Memorandum and how every participating nation ignored it when Russia "annexed" Crimea.

I could go on, but the Cliff's Notes version is yes, I agree with you. America's 75-year reign as a superpower and most affluent country on the planet has led to an ignorant population consumed by their own narcissism and superiority complex, and it could very well lead to our eventual undoing.

 

[Obreid]

own narcissism and superiority complex,

I wouldn’t equate those two things equally.
It’s not that many Americans believe they are superior.
Look at the media here and abroad the last fourth years. Hollywood advertising corporate brands. America has been at the fore front as far as messaging is concerned.
It’s the world they’ve been shown. I love NYC tee shirts on some guy on a dirt street in Africa.
Ignorant sheltered yeah supremacy belief no.

The dream and root of what america is as system for a modern nation state. Many nationalities and cultures coming to live together and work out a society amongst themselves for the best result of all.

Nations aren’t snapshots in history of who and what they are.
They are culture and peoples working together to make life better for themselves and hopefully all those who join with them in that endeavor.

Russia isn’t defined by the Holdomor,
Germany isn’t defined by Hitler
The moslem world isn’t defined by centuries slave trade or 9/11
China isn’t defined by Maos purges
America isn’t defined by slavery or Jim Crow.

Their all defined by what they learn and do with those mistakes and crimes

 

[bartok]

Suncile,

Are we walking right into our demise?

I think so. As a confirmation for what you said, think about the "war retoric" about Covid. In Italy, yestarday, we had 97 deads for Covid, almost of all very old people, in a population of beyond 60.000.000. But, if you see our mass-media, it seems that Verdun battle is going on, the panic is increasing, the government is about to close all one more time and you see people with 2, 3 and also 4 masks worn, even if walking alone, at night.
speaking about the geopolitical situation, we have a Foreign Minister that he is passed from selling sandwiches at the stadium(!), directly at that charge. There is nothing bad that anyone becames deputy, but I bet that in order to hold certain offices, a "little" more experience should be needed. Not now evidently, when the situation is serious. And, in effect, if you pay attention, you will notice that Italy, in the confrontation between US/NATO and Russia, is not doing is "historical" task of mediation. In reality: absolutly no one is mediating.
But Italy is not so different compared to France, Spain, Holland, and maybe al US. The Russian world, is very different: they are just passed a phase of deep crisis, they have done wars. they are more aware, they are tougher. At the society level, we are completely unsuitable to face what is coming, and it is for that, that it is coming. The situation, in my opinion, is MUC MUCH MUCH WORSE than during the Cold War, because WE are NOW as a blind drunk that stupidly goes around in a minefield as if he were in a land of toys.
sooner or later we will get a good slap in the face. I think soon.

 

[DucknCover]

Russia and China are aware of this "mental disease" in the West, they will mercilessly exploit this weakness.

 

[bartok]

Russia and China are aware of this "mental disease" in the West, they will mercilessly exploit this weakness.

Yes. Eventually, I don't have really understood if Covid-19 is something new, maybe created in a Chinese laboratory, or if it is an usual flu, but told with the narration of a pandemic desease. An usual flu, is actually a pandemic desease, but to tell a flu as a pandemic, drammatically change the point of view. I can only say that in Italy, in 1997 the normal flu caused the intensive therapies to be occupied by 70%. And and nobody raises problems about that. Now, with only 10%, it seems that Verdun battle is going on, the panic is palpable and severe restrictions are established.

So, the only thing that we can say with certitude, is that China has exploited very well the situation whatever it is its origin, because, while the Occident at distance of 2 years is continuing to do lockdowns, China, on balance, had closed only Wuhan for some weeks. It is like US had cloesed only New York for some weeks, while a large part of the remaining planet is continuing to close all also at distance of 2 years.

But, an other thing that we can say with certitude, is also that this situation has been exploited in Occident in order to produce an authoritarian turn. For example, in Italy the Parliament is now totally deprived of authority: everything is decided by emergency decree by the gouvernement, that actually holds both the legislative and executive power. no form of opposition is tolerated and in fact it does not exist.

So, this situation, globally weakens our Occidental society, and maybe, as you say, Russia and China are aware of that. But inside of our society, this situation strengthens someone who is okay with it.

Generally speaking, it is a war principle to not disturb the enemy who is doing wrong, but it finally arrives the moment to strike it. For example, I am pretty sure that if Russia takes Ukraine, UE (as to say NATO), will do absolutly nothing, because we are too weak.

 

[rudemarine]

Western Europe or Mainland US not faced direct foreign invasion or military offensive in a very long time from another nation state. This made our populations ignorant or naive to their surroundings. In another way to articulate is many fail to acknowledge problems outside their bubble.

Can't solve problem if you don't know about it. The issue today is leaders with a lack of experince or understanding of what a real "great" war like. Global catastrophe & great sacrifice durring WWII shaped the minds of the entire generation that fought it and many after to prevent such a event again by great lengths. That is now gone only relatable to most just on paper or what Hollywood portrays.

Are we walking right into our demise? Slowly becoming "dumb & domesticated" metaphorically speaking by our own doing. Gaining technological advances is one thing. But losing important remembrances & experiences is dangerous I think. If you don't know or understand somthing, how can you avoid it or fix it?

Thoughts?

Guys like Biden, the leaders of Europe are not ignorant to a World War because it hit home hard for them. Biden is slipping off to La la land a lot but he isn’t really calling the shots.

Look no further than the Nazi Turk connection, from poppa Bush and operation paper clip to the fact that the Nazi intelligence apparatus was never disbanded. The ones still alive were wanted and needed so bad they mixed into American, Britain and West Germany.

Everyone knows Hitler and a ton of Nazis escaped to Argentina with some moving into Chile to help their leader butcher innocent people in camps.

Where their offspring all went from there is anyones best guess but home seems very likely upon the founding of the EU.