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New Trump EO to provision military resources & personnel to local jurisdictions to assist in preventing crime

Winnitude

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Joined
Nov 16, 2022
The United States military can provide support to state and local law enforcement agencies under specific circumstances, but there are legal and procedural limits to how this support can be utilized. While the Posse Comitatus Act generally prohibits the military from executing laws, there are exceptions, primarily the Insurrection Act, which allows the military to be used in certain domestic situations. The Constitution doesn't completely bar the military from law enforcement, but the Posse Comitatus Act and the Insurrection Act provide specific legal limitations.
Posse Comitatus Act: This law generally prohibits the use of the military to execute laws unless expressly authorized by the Constitution or an act of Congress. It aims to prevent the military from being used against civilians in a law enforcement capacity. While the Posse Comitatus Act generally restricts military involvement in law enforcement, there are exceptions, such as when Congress specifically authorizes it (e.g., Coast Guard's law enforcement responsibilities), or in situations where the military is acting within the scope of the Insurrection Act.

Insurrection Act: This act allows the President to use the military to suppress insurrections, enforce federal laws, or suppress rebellions when civilian authorities are unable to do so. It effectively suspends the Posse Comitatus Act in these specific circumstances.

Military Police Authority: Military police have authority to maintain order and enforce rules on military bases, and they can also be involved in investigations and enforcing traffic regulations. However, they generally do not have the authority to arrest civilians outside of military installations.

Support in Emergencies: When there is a significant emergency (like natural disasters or civil unrest), the military can assist through various means, such as providing logistical support, equipment, or even personnel for specific tasks.

National Guard: The National Guard can operate under state control and can be called up to assist local law enforcement. In many cases, National Guard units have more flexibility to engage in law enforcement roles, particularly when authorized by state governors.

Collaborative Programs: There are programs where local law enforcement can receive surplus military equipment through initiatives such as the 1033 Program, which allows law enforcement agencies to acquire excess military equipment for local use.

Joint Task Forces: Sometimes, military and law enforcement may collaborate in joint task forces for specific operations, particularly related to drug enforcement or counter-terrorism efforts.

Martial Law (USA): This is a situation where military authorities take control over normal civilian functions of government. This usually happens in times of emergency, such as war, natural disasters, or civil unrest. Under martial law, the military can enforce laws, maintain order, and sometimes suspend certain rights that citizens typically have, like freedom of movement or the right to assembly. Essentially, it’s the military stepping in to manage a crisis when normal civilian operations cannot effectively maintain safety and order.

While the military can provide assistance, the degree and nature of that support must comply with laws and regulations designed to keep the military from taking over civilian law enforcement functions.
 
On Executive order Project Homecoming... tangentially related

More law enforcement than military, but 20,000 officers? Or 20,000 troops? I don't think I've heard of an order 'provisioning of 20,000 officers' before, only '20,000 troops'?

Wording just seems wrong.. Looks like former or current LEO (being deputized federally) is the target to be fit within this order.

Seeing that this is a particularly large number of people locally involved with border and immigration related activies, let's count it in as a military force.

Think we are at 30,000-35,000 active deployed 'federally commanded units' domestically? Including the 10,000-15,000 troops at the southern border with two destroyers, etc.

(b) No later than 60 days after the date of this proclamation, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall supplement existing enforcement and removal operations by deputizing and contracting with State and local law enforcement officers, former Federal officers, officers and personnel within other Federal agencies, and other individuals to increase the enforcement and removal operations force of the Department of Homeland Security by no less than 20,000 officers in order to conduct an intensive campaign to remove illegal aliens who have failed to depart voluntarily.
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www.whitehouse.gov

Establishing Project Homecoming

Over the last 4 years, the United States has endured a full-scale invasion of aliens entering and remaining in the country illegally, causing a relentless
www.whitehouse.gov www.whitehouse.gov
 
US police are some of the most militarized in the **western** world. Don't think our police need more guns and gear... they certainly have plenty already.

Maybe we should focus on better training and recruitment instead of making a already beefy police force that much more militarized.

That's my unadulterated opinion and that's all I have to say and will say. To busy for politics right now. But you guys do enjoy yourself and play nice. ;)
 
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Back in 2011, I thought about going into law enforcement, took a few criminal justice courses, I had the same professor for each, guy had been in law enforcement for almost 30 years, he said the following

1) since 9/11 police went away from a "community policing" type of policing to more of a anti terrorism type, and he even said they will keep the term "community policing" and claim that's what they are doing. When really it will be more of a counter terrorism policing.

2) he made it clear this next point was strictly a numbers thing, with the wars going on there would be more people in the military and when they get out more of them will join law enforcement, he said that due to the issues with getting veterans the help they need many will have issues while on the force trying to adjust and change to a more law enforcement role he said there will be a increase in incidents because a lot of these people feel like they are back over seas. he said mistrust in law enforcement will go up as police are trained more and more in a counter terrorism role than a policing role.

3) mistrust will continue to build on both sides, police will be afraid to do stops or get out of their vehicles, they will not want to get out and talk to people, which will cause issues with the people and its a cycle that keeps going.

simply saying what my professor said, I never did go into law enforcement but I think about that lecture a lot.
 
DEFCON Warning System said:
If you think US police are the most militarized in the world, you've never been anyplace else in the world.
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They absolutely are among the most widely militarized because of the amount of guns in America. Most of the world the cops don't have to worry about being shot at so they may carry a pistol, but where law enforcement and military is separated, US cops absolutely are among the most militarized general purpose law enforcement (obviously specific police like riot police will be heavily militarized anywhere)

Our police force is more militarized than Russian police. It was only 2014 that Chinese police started carrying firearms, but most Chinese police don't even carry firearms.

You may not have much experience with cops beyond being pulled over, but outside of traffic police, more serious crimes, an incredibly militarized police force will be present, stunningly. There isn't much more militarized you can get without being a military.
 
intel-bank said:
They absolutely are among the most widely militarized because of the amount of guns in America. Most of the world the cops don't have to worry about being shot at so they may carry a pistol, but where law enforcement and military is separated, US cops absolutely are among the most militarized general purpose law enforcement (obviously specific police like riot police will be heavily militarized anywhere)

Our police force is more militarized than Russian police. It was only 2014 that Chinese police started carrying firearms, but most Chinese police don't even carry firearms.

You may not have much experience with cops beyond being pulled over, but outside of traffic police, more serious crimes, an incredibly militarized police force will be present, stunningly. There isn't much more militarized you can get without being a military.
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I don't see how Americans owning Semi auto rifles forced cops to start carrying full auto SBR's with suppressors, myself and many other Americans are quite happy with a 8 round 1911 in 45, cops are now buying/being issued 20 round 9mm's, while I agree the cops are militarized I do not think the 2nd amendment has anything to do with it.

with the military using a specific rifle it would be smart for police agencies to use a similar rifle, those that served are already familiar with it, obviously people can be quickly trained on it, and ammo will not be difficult to find and it will be cheap. Also it has been thourally tested on the tax payers dime, the military did extensive testing to ensure the weapon would be reliable and work when needed. saves police departments from doing their own extensive tests on the type of rifle and just testing models from different companies.

now one could argue with the advent of the "glock switches" things might of changed but then again we need to look at how many of those are out there and how that is changing things, police are/were already using 17,18,19,20 round magazines. It is already a felony to purchase,own,install and possess one of those switches. Law abiding gun owners are not buying these so is it the number of guns in the US? a vast majority are never used to commit a crime.

Many Many law abiding gun owners are pulled over every year while carrying, follow the rules notify the LEO show your CHL and listen to the officer and there is nothing to worry about, the officer still makes the stop with a person in possession of a firearm, if it was such a huge issue would cops still make stops? yes it does happen and cops should be worried but paranoid enough to roll around with a full auto SBR with supressor and nightvision and thermals?

Iv had officers thank me for carrying and getting my CHL, CBP did not bat an eyelash with 6 of us in a truck shotguns in the racks behind us 2 white guys, 2 african americans , and two hispanics rolling up to the check point north of las cruces at 0530 all decked out in camo and many many guns in the car, we were all going duck hunting, CBP just said have fun guys and waved us through.

sure times have changed but I do not see how the 2nd admendmet has led to the militarization of police, when glocks first came out and they had 15 rounds 9mm a lot of cops were using them first cause Glock practically gave them away to police departments, a lot of civilians would not trust a plastic pistol and stuck to 1911's and revolvers with 6,7,8 round magazines. they have always had access to full auto rifles while ciivlians have not, and a good 12 guage is a life saver for any civilian or police officer and both used a lot of those.
 
D.H.S. Requests 20,000 National Guard Members to Help With Immigration Crackdown
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The Defense Department is reviewing the request. If approved, one official said, it would be the first time National Guard troops were used to help enforce an immigration crackdown in the country.
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Totals at ~50k in US theater federally controlled units. Thats alot. Time to dig in for martial law.
 
It not illegal to use the national guard for policing issues. No martial law needed

It was used in early 20th century. Eisenhower, Kennedy Bush used it
Used either to enforce federal law on segregation or civil disruption.

en.wikipedia.org

Insurrection Act of 1807 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
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DEFCON Warning System said:
If you think US police are the most militarized in the world, you've never been anyplace else in the world.
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True. Some police officers in Italy openly carry automatic weapons in public.

That being said, I spoke with several law enforcement officers in Italy and Switzerland, and what I noticed was a subtle difference in attitude. They still see their primary job as protecting the citizens of their country.

In the US, there is almost a systemic "us versus them" mentality between LE and civilians, with LEOs tolerating citizens as an annoyance. Militarization has not helped this attitude. I am not speaking of *all* LEOs, of course. But in my experiences working with them, that mentality is more common than most people are aware.
 
Winnitude said:
www.whitehouse.gov

Strengthening and Unleashing America's Law Enforcement to Pursue Criminals and Protect Innocent Citizens

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is hereby ordered:Section 1. Purpose and
www.whitehouse.gov www.whitehouse.gov

View attachment 7191

Posting here as this is technically military.
Sounds just a little too much like martial law for comfort... not inherently but leaves the door way too far open?
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By the way, I don't know if this is part of this order or it's part of a different EO, but there is also a plan in the works to basically federalize local police departments so they answer to the federal government, not local authorities. Right now it's under the guise of assisting with immigration, but it's an extremely dangerous precedent to set, and I'm not even sure about the constitutionality of it. I don't think it's ever happened before.
 
RiffRaff said:
By the way, I don't know if this is part of this order or it's part of a different EO, but there is also a plan in the works to basically federalize local police departments so they answer to the federal government, not local authorities. Right now it's under the guise of assisting with immigration, but it's an extremely dangerous precedent to set, and I'm not even sure about the constitutionality of it. I don't think it's ever happened before.
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I wonder if this would emboldened local law enforcement? I had theory I discussed with my girlfriend that they would set up checkpoints around major cities to catch illegal immigrants.
 
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Hicks87 said:
Iv had officers thank me for carrying and getting my CHL,
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Me too. I have spent considerable time standing in a parking lot or beside the road with LEO,s discussing all things gun related while openly armed or acknowledged CC.

I was a Deputy Sheriff (full time not reserve or aux.) and absolutely saw the forces become militarized after 911. Wheel guns left and black BDU’s and mega round 9mm arrived. Since “stop or I’ll shoot” became illegal, reversing hundreds of years of shooting fleeing felons, every other person runs. Of course while shooting bank robbers running down the road became illegal, it’s now lawful to shoot the occupants of a home, that you have entered in error, simply for getting out of bed at 3 AM when your department executes its no knock warrant on the WRONG address. (Recent SCOTUS) Yep.

Some changes make good sense. While the 12 gauge 870 was/is perfect for rural areas (and supreme for home defense) the replacement with an AR/M4 platform is a far better choice for mass shootings and hostage situations (IMO) however the Black Rifle looks scary and evil to non armed civilians (hereafter called “sheep”) Public relations will have its hands full explaining away the ninja clad cops carrying a “Black Rifle” then a blue shirted utility/duty belt wearing kid next door all grown up with a wood stocked Moss 500 12ga. walking around on camera at a crime scene.
 
I had listened to a man who was a police trainer. He explained this change took place because of a definitive shift in how police are trained. Instead of how riffraff described police in Switzerland seeing themselves as protects. The Us vs them came about because of US militaries experience the last 20 years. Police have been trained to approach all questionable interactions with the public almost like they’re dealing with an insurgency. 0 to 100 subdue and restrain immediately.

He said it wasn’t so much an institutional decision, it just became part of police training by attrition.
 
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Most law enforcement get the protect part. Most seem to have trouble with the Serve part.

My training officer said to us:

You serve the public. That mean diffusion of situations and yes looking for Mr Wiskers. It also mean serving those you have just arrested. You are now responsible for this innocent persons life needs, both biological and from external threats. They are, once subdued, entitled to the same level of care and respect you give your family. Or better.

(I’m paraphrasing heavily, it was a brief moment several score ago)
 
From my experience with NYPD, they seemed pretty friendly when I visited back in 2012 and 2019. In fact, I got lost as a kid in LA and I remember a kind LAPD officer helped me find my parents. I'd always thought the US police were a far cry from Indian police who treat civilians like scum and couldn't care less. Here you either see fully armed and armored paramilitary prowling the streets, or cops with batons itching to beat someone. Feels like they enjoy it with how little reason they require to use force.
 
7gtz said:
From my experience with NYPD, they seemed pretty friendly when I visited back in 2012 and 2019. In fact, I got lost as a kid in LA and I remember a kind LAPD officer helped me find my parents. I'd always thought the US police were a far cry from Indian police who treat civilians like scum and couldn't care less. Here you either see fully armed and armored paramilitary prowling the streets, or cops with batons itching to beat someone. Feels like they enjoy it with how little reason they require to use force.
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Here it really comes down to - are the cops in a high crime rate community and do they see you as a criminal. Well, criminals might have guns. So you need to be quick to the trigger. But you can't be too quick to the trigger, and we have fought to insure they don't - we've fought to have more cops trained in "if you don't pull yours they are less likely to pull theirs", something that not so long ago wasn't seen that way. Thankfully we have both improved police and started to dismantle systemic poverty and violence slowly but surely. But the problem still exists widely.

Its not that there aren't good cops. Its that the bad ones shoot people.
 
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