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Putin implies US gave Turkey flight path...

JohnStone said:
Do they know how fast the plane was going?
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Those things can be deduced mathematically.
 
A 7 to 17 sec intrusion. Well i could see turkeys point of view at first, but really just a couple seconds? Turkey...what have you gotten us into.
 
The Belgium physicist analysis is spot on -- Turkey is full of it. Their story has changed several times and still doesn't add up. Russia may have not told the whole truth either but they're not the one who downed a military jet under curious circumstances. The onus is on Turkey, not Russia to prove it was necessary/justified -- especially since the jet crashed in Syria.

Considering Russia has been conducting sorties near the Turkish border for some time now, there is no way for Turkey to simply "assume" a Russian jet may enter their airspace. The jet could easily turn at the last minute, I doubt Turkey would warn every approaching aircraft just to be safe.

What is also suspicious is how quickly Turkey scrambled F-16s and downed the Russian jet. They managed to scramble two F-16s into the air, approach, and down the Russian jet in 17 seconds or less? That doesn't seem feasible unless this was somewhat premeditated. Even if true, that's quite opposite of "plenty of warning and being gracious" on Turkey's part. Numerous countries deal with Russian bombers approaching their airspace all the time, this is not the smart way to handle it.

Another aspect that greatly bothers me is how the rebels in the region (right under Turkey's nose) were waiting like vultures to kill the ejecting pilot and navigator. I say waiting because I find it convenient they manage to get perfect footage of both downing the jet and the TOW missile attack on the rescue helicopter. Again this leads me to believe a level of premeditation.

The part where the plan went awry is that the Russian navigator survived to tell the tale. Judging by the level of ground combat that occurred during the rescue mission leads me to believe they did not want any survivors to jeopardize the official story.

This whole thing stinks to high heaven and I'm getting increasingly annoyed at NATO standing with Turkey. They are a huge liability, just like a troublesome little brother who picks schoolyard fights because he knows his older brother has his back.

What is it going to take? What happens when the bear has had enough and goes ape on Turkey for an indefensible action? What happens when Turkey's dealings with ISIS oil and medical care comes to light?

It's a matter of time and I think we're talking days or weeks here.
 
I'd just like to add to the above that a lot of discussion appearing on LiveLeak seems to indicate the fighters; particularly the one whom killed one of the pilots, were supposedly not Turkmen but members of the Grey Wolves, an Islamist Ultra-Nationalist movement in Turkey. If this is true it means a Turkish citizen killed a member of the Russian Airforce, I am uncertain if Russia knows this and/or if the fighters are all dead by now anyway, but I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up being the next news piece on RT/Sputnik.
 
I would estimate this is more bad blood between Turkey and Russia, than between NATO and Russia. This conflict dates back centuries, and includes Crimea.
Books in Turkish were burnt in Russian-occupied Crimea’s former Turkish lyceum, while Turkish language teachers were forced to resign, according to Crimean journalist Osman Pashayev, Ukrainska Pravda reports.
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http://www.unian.info/society/11986...ers-from-occupied-crimeas-turkish-lyceum.html

The Blockade thread was locked, but reports by The Unian are that Turkey is holding Russian ships:

http://www.unian.info/economics/1197904-russian-ships-waiting-for-hours-to-cross-bosphorus.html
 
As I mentioned before, if Turkey was engaged in an active blockage, Russia would be screaming bloody murder about it. We wouldn't need to be digging so deep to find information on it.

But from what we've heard over the last few days, I don't think Turkey and Russia are done with each other yet.
 
DEFCONWarningSystem said:
As I mentioned before, if Turkey was engaged in an active blockage, Russia would be screaming bloody murder about it. We wouldn't need to be digging so deep to find information on it.

But from what we've heard over the last few days, I don't think Turkey and Russia are done with each other yet.
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Oh definitly (murdered the word). They will have a few more exchanges beford this is over id say.
 
DEFCONWarningSystem said:
As I mentioned before, if Turkey was engaged in an active blockage, Russia would be screaming bloody murder about it. We wouldn't need to be digging so deep to find information on it.

But from what we've heard over the last few days, I don't think Turkey and Russia are done with each other yet.
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Turns out, there may be some fact to that particular story:
Asymmetrical or not, Turkey could feasibly perceive Russia's military buildup along the Turkish-Syrian border as a serious threat and invoke its most valuable trump card: the Turkish Straits.
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Turkey may legally block Russian military vessels from passing through the straits under two conditions: if it is at war with Russia or if it considers itself to be "threatened with imminent danger of war."
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Turkey has already reportedly signaled that it is willing to take some steps of retaliation with the straits. Leonid Bershidsky, a Bloomberg View columnist, reported on Tuesday that Turkey is "making Russian cargo ships wait for hours before they're allowed to pass through the Bosporus."
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Source: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/erdogan-trump-card-against-putin-222844006.html
 
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