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Russia and Nato war games increase risk of real clash, report says

dryjoy

Active member
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Jun 26, 2015
Russia and Nato war games increase risk of real clash, report says
Russia and Nato have been conducting increasingly large-scale military exercises to prepare for a possible conflict with each other, but the war games themselves are making a clash more likely, a new report warns.

The report by the European Leadership Network (ELN) thinktank calls on both sides to communicate more and to improve the transparency of their military activities. It also encourages them to wind down the scale of their war games while starting work on a new treaty that would limit the sort of weaponry allowed along their borders.

“Each exercise is seen as provocative by the other side and feeding a dynamic of distrust and unpredictability,” Ian Kearns, ELN’s director, said. “Everyone is focusing on the deterrent value of big exercises, but there is a downside and that is the risk factor. Politicians have to show political judgment and restraint about when is the right time to scale down what could be a spiralling sequence of exercises.”

The ELN report is titled Preparing for the worst: are Russian and N ato military exercises making war in Europe more likely? It analyses two recent mass war games: a Russian ‘snap exercise’ in March involving 80,000 military personal from bases all across the country, and Nato’s Allied Shield set of war games conducted on air, land and sea in June, and drawing in 15,000 personnel from 22 countries.

“Both exercises show that each side is training with the other side’s capabilities and most likely war plans in mind,” the report said. “Whilst spokespeople may maintain that these operations are targeted against hypothetical opponents, the nature and scale of them indicate otherwise: Russia is preparing for a conflict with NAato, and Nato is preparing for a possible confrontation with Russia.”

The Russian exercise in March started in the far north and spread across the federation in order to mimic a rapidly escalating conflict. Troops were deployed to reinforce vulnerable outlying regions like the Kola peninsula, islands in the Arctic, the Kaliningrad enclave, Crimea and the north Pacific island of Sakhalin. As well as the huge number of elite forces and conscripts, the exercise involved 12,000 pieces of heavy equipment, 65 warships, 15 submarines and 220 aircraft.

Nato’s exercises in June comprised a naval action in the Baltic with a focus on amphibious operations in Sweden and Poland; a conventional-force exercise focused on Poland and the Baltic states that included airborne and tank clashes; and the first deployment of a joint task force set up specifically to address fears among Baltic states of Russian infiltration and the use of irregular fighters, as witnessed in Crimea and eastern Ukraine.
Each exercise led to close military encounters as each side approached the other’s war games to assess their capability and hardware. The ELN report said that the Russian practice of not giving notice of its exercises added to the risk of unintended clashes and contributed to the general level of tension.

“It is vitally important to increase Nato-Russia communication with regards to the schedule of exercises,” the ELN report recommended, adding that the two sides should use the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe to pass on details of war exercises in advance. The report also called on each side to weigh the costs and benefits of intensive exercises in border areas, and to show restraint in their scale.
Lastly, the thinktank – which brings together former defence ministers and senior ex-officials from Europe and Russia – appealed for work to begin on “a new treaty introducing reciprocal territorial limitations on deployment of specific categories of weapons, backed by robust inspections”.

Now, I understand that the concepts reported in this article will hardly represent radical thinking for those that frequent this board, however it is always significant to me when the possibility of NATO-Russia conflict is acknowledged in the mainstream press. The frequency of such reports and acknowledgements in the UK press does seem to be gradually increasing.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ames-increase-risk-of-real-clash-reports-says
 
Good Source. I agree with your assessment. I maintain that as the global economic collapse intensifies and commodities continue to spiral downward in a deflationary race to the bottom, countries (like China already has) will devalue their currencies to increase exports due to the fact you can buy more stuff with cheaper money.

This will lead to fighting for resources to manufacture the exports in order to keep a country's economy from imploding. Then the real war will start. It will be unlike any we have ever studied. Land grabs, resource manipulations, country's buying up the origin of the resources or occupying the land or sea that restricts trade routes to impede a country's ability to manufacture and produce (i.e. SCS, Ukraine). It will come down to this, or the alternative of a whole lot less people on planet earth (probably both). And since America is resource-rich, but lacking manufacturing capabilities on the scale needed for this war, we are target number one..

That's what all countries are now doing and they have all deemed this currency/resource war an existential threat to their respective national and global security. My guess is a huge depopulation event that leaves the resources viable. EMP, Neutron Bombs, large-scale conventional, bio-release, or have us kill each other off rounds out my top 5. You can be sure those in power will not go down without ensuring their survival while keeping the resources unharmed for the most part. Then the decision will be made, probably collectively, to begin the reset. The real question is 'when' not 'if'.
 
A general today (I think) called Russia the greatest threat to our security, it made MSM as well. The fact that their talking about it more, well, i'm not sure if that's a good sign, as I'm afraid MSM may be setting the stage for something big. Unconfirmed, but Russian news is reporting that the OSCE is leaving Donetsk for good, due to a few of their vehicles being attacked and set on fire by "sabotage units" in the region. Fighting is also flaring up on all fronts in E. Ukraine, a clear indication that the rebels are attempting to gain territory in all directions. Extra fighting in being waged near Mariupol, but so far Ukraine has held on to that territory. It is a city containing a key port, and will need to be over run by Russians if they are to create their land bridge. So while some may have thought Russia was giving up on Ukrainian expansion, looks like he was just regrouping.

Also, let's not forget about Russia's claim on a vast region of the Arctic at the UN, which will likely reject Putin's proposal, but there are now reports of little green men appearing in vital areas of the North Pole. Is it for energy which is what is being reported, or a new front against Europe or both? The world is a mess fellows, i'm actually surprised all out war hasn't broken out yet.

Oh, and what kind of deals are being worked out between Iran and Russia, not to mention our supposed ally Saudi Arabia wanting Russian Missiles now? A lot is not making sense right now.

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And NATO exercise "Trident Juncture" Begins in October. The largest NATO exercise since post-911. Over 36,000 troops will be involved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f_w3MWbm-U
 
TheChrome said:
And NATO exercise "Trident Juncture" Begins in October. The largest NATO exercise since post-911. Over 36,000 troops will be involved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f_w3MWbm-U
Thats it???
 
matty1053 said:
TheChrome said:
And NATO exercise "Trident Juncture" Begins in October. The largest NATO exercise since post-911. Over 36,000 troops will be involved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f_w3MWbm-U
Thats it???

I admit you'd think it be larger. But if it's the largest, what can you do...
 
jayfeather31 said:
matty1053 said:
TheChrome said:
And NATO exercise "Trident Juncture" Begins in October. The largest NATO exercise since post-911. Over 36,000 troops will be involved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f_w3MWbm-U
Thats it???

I admit you'd think it be larger. But if it's the largest, what can you do...

Ha true... but I thought it would be like 100,000+. But hey, any training exercise is good!
 
It takes time to build up forces, and that's exactly what these 'drills' are being used for. Sure, NATO calls them exercises, and they are for the most part, but they also allow NATO to strategically buildup military forces in Eastern Europe.
 
What kind of tanks are these? I know they're American. Are they lethal or just armored vehicles? Rumor was that were 50 of them in austria en route to Ukraine. This pic was posted by Austria's freedom party leader. The claim is that they are Abrams.

Screen-Shot-2015-03-26-at-7.03.29-PM.png
 
JohnStone said:
It takes time to build up forces, and that's exactly what these 'drills' are being used for. Sure, NATO calls them exercises, and they are for the most part, but they also allow NATO to strategically buildup military forces in Eastern Europe.

And NATO is overtly building up forces in the region on top of that (via the rapid response forces, and the very high readiness taskforce). The situation is severe enough that there isn't any real attempt to mask these mobilzations as part of excercises.
 
I'm thinking the exercises are the mask. I'm sure our enemies know better, but most people probably see these and say, "It's only exercises, nothing to worry about."
 
JohnStone said:
What kind of tanks are these? I know they're American. .... The claim is that they are Abrams.

Screen-Shot-2015-03-26-at-7.03.29-PM.png

Definitely not, compare to https://www.google.com/search?q=M1+Abrams&client=safari&hl=en&prmd=iv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMI7Ourx4mnxwIVgjs-Ch0stwRC&biw=414&bih=628&dpr=3#hl=en&tbm=isch&q=M1+Abrams+train+transport+

Way too much headroom for an abrams
If american, then theyre likely m2 bradley infantry transports
Update: yeah, almost definitely. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i.imgur.com/cbAyELZ.gif&imgrefurl=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f%3D6%26t%3D225227&h=490&w=800&tbnid=aQ52W6I7XGDgDM:&docid=L76_ZtPtlI_WuM&hl=en&ei=FRfNVZipJYHv-QGVgbTABQ&tbm=isch&client=safari&ved=0CCAQMygDMANqFQoTCNiH9uuKp8cCFYF3PgodlQANWA
 
Makes more sense, and we did say that we'd be providing armored transports. Propaganda is getting out of hand, getting hard to determine real news from the fake stuff. I was wondering why they didn't have a big gun, I didn't think that they removed it for transport.
 
JohnStone said:
I'm thinking the exercises are the mask. I'm sure our enemies know better, but most people probably see these and say, "It's only exercises, nothing to worry about."

It doesn't even go that far. It is a very minor attempt at PR to call them exercises when everyone knows full well these are deployment and resource maneuvers. But for some odd reason everyone still calls them "exercises" just so they can say "We're not being aggressive."
 
DEFCONWarningSystem said:
JohnStone said:
I'm thinking the exercises are the mask. I'm sure our enemies know better, but most people probably see these and say, "It's only exercises, nothing to worry about."

It doesn't even go that far. It is a very minor attempt at PR to call them exercises when everyone knows full well these are deployment and resource maneuvers. But for some odd reason everyone still calls them "exercises" just so they can say "We're not being aggressive."


But for the most part, it seems that we would agree that these "exercises" are actually deployments, and that they're being called this to mask their true nature...deployments. A PR campaign indeed, and i'm sure most Americans who pay little attention to the news, are buying into this.
 
JohnStone said:
But for the most part, it seems that we would agree that these "exercises" are actually deployments, and that they're being called this to mask their true nature...deployments. A PR campaign indeed, and i'm sure most Americans who pay little attention to the news, are buying into this.

Someone I used to know who was "in the know" once told me that the United States actually never does anything in secret. What they do, they'll do in plain sight. They do it drop by drop, like the proverbial lobster in boiling water, so you'll see it but never notice it until it's too late.

Same with what is going on here. We're watching troop movements and messages being sent. It's a dangerous game.
 
Encyclopath said:
JohnStone said:
What kind of tanks are these? I know they're American. .... The claim is that they are Abrams.

Screen-Shot-2015-03-26-at-7.03.29-PM.png

Definitely not, compare to https://www.google.com/search?q=M1+Abrams&client=safari&hl=en&prmd=iv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMI7Ourx4mnxwIVgjs-Ch0stwRC&biw=414&bih=628&dpr=3#hl=en&tbm=isch&q=M1+Abrams+train+transport+

Way too much headroom for an abrams
If american, then theyre likely m2 bradley infantry transports
Update: yeah, almost definitely. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i.imgur.com/cbAyELZ.gif&imgrefurl=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f%3D6%26t%3D225227&h=490&w=800&tbnid=aQ52W6I7XGDgDM:&docid=L76_ZtPtlI_WuM&hl=en&ei=FRfNVZipJYHv-QGVgbTABQ&tbm=isch&client=safari&ved=0CCAQMygDMANqFQoTCNiH9uuKp8cCFYF3PgodlQANWA

Those are called Bradley Fighting Vehicles equipt with a chain gun (20mm or 30mm I don't remember) and tow missle system. And carry soldiers/marines.
 
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