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UA-RU-NATO War & Ukraine Peace Talks | Discussions

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alphaecho said:
BREAKING: Semafor, citing two sources familiar with the talks, reports the Trump administration has discussed recognizing Crimea as Russian territory and urging the UN to do the same, in a bid to finalize a peace deal.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1901703269962903764
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Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure this was said on the 2016 campaign trail in a bid to normalize relations as well.
 
Ben Dhyani said:
Ukraine has four key terms that must be upheld in order for the full-scale war to end, sources said. These are:
  • No further territory ceded to Russia, including territory in the partially-occupied regions of Ukraine
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Interesting. So they are willing to cede what they've already lost?
Ben Dhyani said:
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Russia will say they went voluntarily.
Ben Dhyani said:
  • International security guarantees in the event Moscow breaks the terms of any future ceasefire
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Didn't Russia already say they won't agree to an international force?
 
DEFCON Warning System said:
Interesting. So they are willing to cede what they've already lost?

Russia will say they went voluntarily.

Didn't Russia already say they won't agree to an international force?
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AFAIK they've been saying only NATO forces isn't acceptable sometimes, and sometimes they've been saying that no peacekeepers from any nation is acceptable, and one or two times they said that any nation was alright as long as they are unarmed.
 
Cilvilt_beredskap said:
AFAIK they've been saying only NATO forces isn't acceptable sometimes, and sometimes they've been saying that no peacekeepers from any nation is acceptable, and one or two times they said that any nation was alright as long as they are unarmed.
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Any peacekeeping for they’re going to want is from nato countries so it’s basically a nonstarter for Russia and unarmed peacekeepers are useless.
 
When Putin's envoy is saying that the world will be a safer place and that the call was "historic", it signals that Russia likely got all they wanted with no consessions.
 
Cilvilt_beredskap said:
When Putin's envoy is saying that the world will be a safer place and that the call was "historic", it signals that Russia likely got all they wanted with no consessions.
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That is what I am worried about.

Apparently, according to a headline on Drudge, Putin kept Trump waiting. A power play.
 
DEFCON Warning System said:
Apparently, according to a headline on Drudge, Putin kept Trump waiting. A power play.
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Yep, he did. The call began an hour after it was originally scheduled, with Putin holding a presser at the same time his spox was claiming the call was already underway. ("Don't listen to [Peskov]." was Putin's reply when asked about this discrepancy).

He has a long history of doing that to people he doesn't respect.
 
Putin put forward terms that would be unacceptable to Ukraine and Europe in general, but appeared to show Trump that he was serious by ordering the stop of infrastructure attacks immediately. Guessing the ball now goes back to Ukraine to see how their government reacts, just hope that there will be Ukranian involvement in the supposed further peace talks in the middle east.
 
Cilvilt_beredskap said:
Putin put forward terms that would be unacceptable to Ukraine and Europe in general, but appeared to show Trump that he was serious by ordering the stop of infrastructure attacks immediately.
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Energy infrastructure only, though. And this was actually hurting Russia more than it was hurting Ukraine - with multiple Russian refineries and gas pumping stations going kaboom in recent weeks, seriously disrupting Russia's ability to process crude oil and ship fuels to its foreign clients. No wonder he cherry picked that "concession".
 
In general, it appears that the 30-day ceasefire proposal put forward by the US and Ukraine was rejected by Putin - as widely expected.
 
So according to Russian (peskov) source the call was to take place between 9 -11 EST. It was at 10. Is there something more definitive than the Times of India source from the Russian presser that this was Putin keeping Trump waiting.
Or just Russian disinformation.
 
I agree that what Putin is demanding right now is untenable. I’ll only point out this is still just the beginning. That Trump is offering the economic benefits of trade and greater stability is a carrot. It does not give anything away of what Ukraine needs or should expect.
Again the talks could very likely fail. I’ve acknowledged that from the beginning.

Not trying is not appeasement. Especially when there still remains very little support in any of the NATO capitals to do what is honestly necessary to end this war as a loss for Putin.

If Putin refuses to budge on any necessary security guarantees that Ukraine needs. Then the rubber will meet the road. And Trump and the other European leaders will need to definitely put up or shut up.
Just remember that if that is what they actually decide to do the risk of escalation climbs dramatically.
Is that what we support.
I say do it send troops create a no fly zone. And start grinding those lines back to the old boarders.
But does any one really think this is what the nato capitals will support. And it will demand 100% participation of nato simply because it puts all of nato at risk of being attacked

There are no guarantees that continuation of military aid to Ukraine for another three years will convince Russia to withdraw or capitulate. He might, he very well might not. He might escalate, I don’t see the signs that he will escalate, but he has the means to escalate dramatically with just a phone call.


I’m not arguing to capitulate to Putin, only for the effort to try and negotiate an end to the war.
 
OReid said:
I agree that what Putin is demanding right now is untenable. I’ll only point out this is still just the beginning. That Trump is offering the economic benefits of trade and greater stability is a carrot. It does not give anything away of what Ukraine needs or should expect.
Again the talks could very likely fail. I’ve acknowledged that from the beginning.

Not trying is not appeasement. Especially when there still remains very little support in any of the NATO capitals to do what is honestly necessary to end this war as a loss for Putin.

If Putin refuses to budge on any necessary security guarantees that Ukraine needs. Then the rubber will meet the road. And Trump and the other European leaders will need to definitely put up or shut up.
Just remember that if that is what they actually decide to do the risk of escalation climbs dramatically.
Is that what we support.
I say do it send troops create a no fly zone. And start grinding those lines back to the old boarders.
But does any one really think this is what the nato capitals will support. And it will demand 100% participation of nato simply because it puts all of nato at risk of being attacked

There are no guarantees that continuation of military aid to Ukraine for another three years will convince Russia to withdraw or capitulate. He might, he very well might not. He might escalate, I don’t see the signs that he will escalate, but he has the means to escalate dramatically with just a phone call.


I’m not arguing to capitulate to Putin, only for the effort to try and negotiate an end to the war.
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^THIS^ is proper political analysis, people.
 
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