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UA-RU-NATO War & Ukraine Peace Talks | DISCUSSIONS
- Thread starter Irag8er
- Start date
I agree.
Is Witkoff agreeing with Russia's position or merely acknowledging it?
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- Apr 6, 2015
From the quote it sounds like acknowledging it. "There's a sensibility in Russia that..."
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- Jan 27, 2018
- Location
- Guayaquil - Ecuador
China has declared its readiness to help Ukraine with post-war reconstruction
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- Sep 7, 2022
He directly said that the majority of people in occupied areas wanted to be a part of Russia. Problem is that data pulls from a Russian state funded poll grouping that took place after the crimean annexation and 2014 insurgency. In the rest of the interview he continues to parrot russian talking points while also trying to maintain a vague sense of ambiguity. This is the politicking strategy that his admin is shaping up right now it seems, conceding that Putin is right on some issues to curry favor in these diplomatic proceeding and "mend economic relations", which fact based evidence and humane common sense sees that he is wrong and unjustly invading a sovereign nation.
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- Sep 7, 2022
If you click the video it is timestamped for source audio ^
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- Sep 7, 2022
Just caught that but Tucker totally just compared Ukraine to Hamas lmao
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- May 15, 2022
Witkoff is a clown, and it doesn't matter what he says, because (i) he has no real agency, and (ii) those so-called "negotiations" are a puppet show. One way or another, Putin will ensure that they fail.
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- Sep 6, 2022
It is factually correct that the language spoken in those areas including crimea is Russian approximately 91%.
Does that mean that those populations prefer to be Russia?
Not definitely but it is a data point that does indicate ethnic dominance in a region.
So is he repeating a Putin talking point or simply stating a basic fact
translatorswithoutborders.org
Does that mean that those populations prefer to be Russia?
Not definitely but it is a data point that does indicate ethnic dominance in a region.
So is he repeating a Putin talking point or simply stating a basic fact
Language data for Ukraine - Translators without Borders
Open-source language data and maps about languages spoken in Ukraine can improve how we communicate with communities in crisis.
translatorswithoutborders.org
- Joined
- May 15, 2022
The former, obviously.
According to a survey conducted by Pew Research Centre from 5–23 April 2014, 18% of eastern Ukrainians were in favor of secession, while 70% wished to remain part of a united Ukraine (source).
You can find many other polls held around that time, which produced similar results.
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- Jan 3, 2024
Spoken language also doesn’t equal cultural identity. People from the southern U.S. are very different than those from the western United States even though they all speak English.It is factually correct that the language spoken in those areas including crimea is Russian approximately 91%.
Does that mean that those populations prefer to be Russia?
Not definitely but it is a data point that does indicate ethnic dominance in a region.
So is he repeating a Putin talking point or simply stating a basic fact
Language data for Ukraine - Translators without Borders
Open-source language data and maps about languages spoken in Ukraine can improve how we communicate with communities in crisis.
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- Jul 16, 2016
The fact that this is even up for debate shows how far off the deep end the World has gone.
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2022
Yes and 54 % of crimea was in favor of sececcion.
Also the pew poll was done in may of 14.
Two months after fighting began and access to significant parts of east Ukraine would have been limited.
I again go back to the reality of the war and the successful prosecution of it.
Unless someone can illuminate a real world strategy that nato will back. That can bring it to a successful conclusion.
I’d also like to remind everyone that the time for this defence and indignation at Ukraine sovereignty being challenged. Should have been fought back in 14.
But I forgot Obama promised Putin a little leeway.
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- May 15, 2022
That's all understandable, and a fair opinion to hold, but the claim that residents of the Donbas wanted to join Russia appears to be - for all intents and purposes - a lie. What's more, to say "they speak Russian, therefore they want to be Russian" is either uninformed or flat out dishonest. Witkoff is just parroting the Kremlin line, probably in hope of somehow ingratiating himself with Trump... eh, who can say, really.
As for Crimea, you do not provide any source for your claim that 54% of Crimeans allegedly desired secession. A study carried out by the London School of Economics (available at Were Crimeans really pro-Russian before annexation? | LSE Research) arrived at the following conclusions regarding popular sentiment in Crimea before Russia moved in to annex the territory:
Only the minority in pro-Russian parties wanted Russian citizenship. (...) Instead, most (...) saw Russian citizenship as illegal and pointless. Even if Russian citizenship had been accessible for them, it would still have been undesirable. Russian citizenship failed to offer much in the way of rights they needed or wanted.
Pro-Russian political parties were unsuccessful in Crimea for two reasons: first, their ideology failed to appeal. Second, their style of politics, via corruption and organised crime, made these parties illegitimate and unpopular to voters.
There was also little support for annexation or separatism before 2014. Annexation, or separatism, seemed inconceivable and undesirable.
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- Jan 3, 2024
I guess I don’t know what you mean. I don’t believe the people in Crimea actually voted to join Russia and I’m saying Russias argument that they spoke Russian isn’t a good argument.
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- Sep 6, 2022
I acknowledge that already in my post.
We speak French (dying out),
Spanish (Exploding), English (most poorly) and ‘Merican (damn fine).
Still, we ID as Americans.
Perhaps “Americans-held hostage” like Democrats now feel and all the sane people felt the last four years.
“No Karine, putting an Assistant Secretary in a dress and slapping lipstick and heels to a dress on does not make a woman.
Putting a man with biceps and balls bulging out from a one piece speedo on the woman’s swimming team does not make him a woman. It makes him an asshole ruining the experience for all of the other women and endangering their lives in certain circumstances.
But you know what that’s a fight between cousins here in the states but we still all identify as Americans (much the dismay or profound relief of the rest of North and South America who don’t get to use the term American. )
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- May 15, 2022
If Fox News was all I watched (disclaimer: I do watch Fox News, just not to the exclusion of everything else) then I'd honestly believe this is the most important issue facing America right now.
Btw., I really like the "Democrats vs. sane people" dichotomy. That's a class act.
The last "fight between cousins" produced about a million casualties (~3% of total US population) - and all they had were muzzle-loaded muskets and smoothbore cannons.
I'm sure you'll do much better this time around.
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- Joined
- Sep 6, 2022
I only pointed out that it was factually correct regarding language. A indication of influence, nothing more. Given the history of Ukraine and and the historic back and forth of people groups. Russian colonialism moves of the 18th century and the Soviet abuses on Ukraine.
There are bound to be ethnic allegiances that, thou not widespread, do exist.
Now we can go back and review the redrawing of national boundaries in last 40 years and what Russia itself agreed to.
In that light alone than screw the ethnic minorities and tell them to get in line.
That was and remains to be my foundational position today for what we should do.
But that is not the geopolitical situation in Ukraine or the world today. And it wasn’t before Trump was elected, is the most important thing to remember.
Use of force has been used by Russia to redraw those boarders. And subsequent use of force by Ukraine and NATO has not prevented that.
So to move forward we need to agree to those changed realities. Or we need to change our use of force response to those those realities. But simply claiming and responding with only a morally authoritative argument is rarely sufficient to change history.
So we can wholeheartedly support Ukraines 2014 boarders and their sovereign claim to them. But without offering a plan and actions to defend them.
What does that actually mean?
We can acknowledge the world has changed and adjuste to that change. And look to help extract those involved from this ongoing war.
Or we can continue to feed weapons to Ukraine unabated and hope for something different. This while wildly popular in some sectors has not produced any long term hope of success.
I support Ukraines 2014 boarders and their sovereignty whole heartedly.
I also believed, and stated, all the way back in 2022 that the only way we were going to be successful in that. Was that sooner that later we would need to send western armies in Ukraine.
I made that argument then. Ukraine was going to be successful in repelling the russia back to a point. But to win it would eventually take western armies to do so.
Been waiting three years, lots of talk of solidarity, of importance of stopping Russia, how brave the Ukrainians are. The deprivations they have suffered.
How terrible Putin is etc etc ..,,
Still no western armies.
We can work to try and negotiate an end to the war now. Or solder on continuing to send only weapons and wait for what will very possibly be a complete loss of the war for Ukraine.
Any convoluted claims of success or justification made claiming we’re depleting Russia military stocks or number of dead Russians, will be completely null if Putin is allowed to install another oligarch over Ukraine.