Ukraine April 2021

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RiffRaff

Deputy Director
Staff member
President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelenskyy in an interview with Le Figaro said that Donbass and Crimea could face a future comparable to the "exclusion zone in Chernobyl." "It will be a dead territory. It will be worse than Chernobyl," the head of state said.

This is from a Google Translate of an article on a Russian state-owned website. Please take it with a grain of salt on whether or not Zelensky actually said this, but it's important either way. If he actually said that within the context of the current crisis, then it's extremely important. If he didn't say it or the quote is taken out of context, it's still important because this is what the Russian government is feeding to their people.

 
President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelenskyy in an interview with Le Figaro said that Donbass and Crimea could face a future comparable to the "exclusion zone in Chernobyl." "It will be a dead territory. It will be worse than Chernobyl," the head of state said.

This is from a Google Translate of an article on a Russian state-owned website. Please take it with a grain of salt on whether or not Zelensky actually said this, but it's important either way. If he actually said that within the context of the current crisis, then it's extremely important. If he didn't say it or the quote is taken out of context, it's still important because this is what the Russian government is feeding to their people.

Unless there's actual audio of the interview where he said this, my bet would be it's Russian propaganda.
 

JPod

Member
Apparently government buildings and that sort of thing are being sand bagged in the Russian occupied areas.
 

ChinPower

Member
Unless there's actual audio of the interview where he said this, my bet would be it's Russian propaganda.
He actually said that. Quote from gov Ukrainian site:
Я живу в іншій парадигмі. Для мене Крим і Донбас нікуди не йшли, і це – точно наші території. І вони не будуть щасливі без України. Ми це бачимо по тих територіях, де є окупація, – в Абхазії, Придністров’ї тощо. Я не бачив там якогось наукового прориву, крутих підприємств, хмарочосів Гонконгу. Я не бачив там життя. Тому я не бачу там щастя. А коли люди нещасливі, вони їдуть з тієї території. Отже, це буде «мертва» територія. Це буде гірше, ніж Чорнобиль. Тому що навіть у Чорнобиль приїжджають туристи. А це будуть просто «мертві» регіони, на жаль.
 

Obreid

Power Poster
I'd say unless this is part of a coordinated effort to divide America's attention.

I mean we are focusing a lot on Ukraine, which I feel is warranted but there's been some noise from China about Taiwan recently, more military movements, more threats towards Taiwan, more incursions into their airspace, not that that's surprising as it happens decently regularly but it seems to have ramped up as of late. Not trying to come off as a conspiracy theorist, but, I kind of feel like it's pretty obvious that Russia and China have similar goals and similar feelings about America. They both have lands that they feel entitled to in their parts of the world (Taiwan, at least part of if not all of Ukraine), they both are consistently opposed in their endeavors to spread their influence by America. They both know that America is pretty much the backbone of NATO in Europe, and whatever the Pacific version of that would be with Japan/South Korea/Australia, etc. And they both have consistently maintained moderate relationships with countries that we generally aren't too friendly with who would absolutely side against the US in the event of a World War (North Korea, Iran, Pakistan.)

Really truly not trying to be all conspiracy theory-ish, but I feel like if either country wanted the greatest amount of success in their plans, their best bet would be to coordinate their moves in such a way that the biggest threat to them, America, would at best (for them) have their attention divided, unable to solely focus on either front, and at worst (for one of them) focus completely on one front, which would allow the other side to essentially take what they wanted relatively unimpeded.

Maybe that's a huge stretch, but it just seems like too much of a coincidence, that at the same time this is occurring in Ukraine with Russia/Belarus, China is making similar noise in Taiwan, there was a cyber attack on Iran's nuclear program, Pakistan's very anti-France attitude to the point that France has advised their citizens to evacuate, and North Korea's weird silence though there's been speculation of China discussing reopening borders with North Korea". And the only reason I'm even mentioning Pakistan is they're another Nuclear power, clearly not a fan of either the US or India who is our big ally in Asia, and Russia has been trying to make nice with them in the last week or two.

Just feels like a combination of our biggest geo-political rivals are shoring up their defense, beginning to extend their influences, and make major moves all around the same time.

Feel free to tell me I'm nuts and prove me wrong folks, I'd rather this all just be a bunch of posturing and nothing major is in the works, just seems a bit unlikely that this is all just a coincidence. I'm not military, so perhaps I'm super off base here but that's totally what I would do if I had things I wanted and America was standing in my way.
It’s is a little bit of a stretch. Not that others might capitalize on the US attention being divide. But in that it’s a coordinated effort to bring down the US.
Only when one of the three think another is so weak that any plausible attack would break their back and incapacitate them will such an event occur. Right now everyone is just dancing and watching for opportunities.
taiwan could be an opportunity but after US Switzerland they would be hard to subdue in my opinion.
Who knows Taiwan’s wealthy enough they could be one of those stealth nuclear states we’ve never mentioned.
 
He actually said that. Quote from gov Ukrainian site:
Я живу в іншій парадигмі. Для мене Крим і Донбас нікуди не йшли, і це – точно наші території. І вони не будуть щасливі без України. Ми це бачимо по тих територіях, де є окупація, – в Абхазії, Придністров’ї тощо. Я не бачив там якогось наукового прориву, крутих підприємств, хмарочосів Гонконгу. Я не бачив там життя. Тому я не бачу там щастя. А коли люди нещасливі, вони їдуть з тієї території. Отже, це буде «мертва» територія. Це буде гірше, ніж Чорнобиль. Тому що навіть у Чорнобиль приїжджають туристи. А це будуть просто «мертві» регіони, на жаль.
Ahh, thank you. So after a reading a rough translation, it looks like the quote was taken somewhat out of context.

"I live in a different paradigm. For me, Crimea and Donbass did not go anywhere, and these are exactly our territories. And they will not be happy without Ukraine. We see this in the territories where there is occupation - in Abkhazia, Transnistria, etc. I did not see any scientific breakthrough, cool businesses, skyscrapers in Hong Kong. I did not see life there. That's why I don't see happiness there. And when people are unhappy, they leave that territory. So, it will be "dead" territory. It will be worse than Chernobyl. Because even tourists come to Chernobyl. And these will be just "dead" regions, unfortunately."

Source
 

ChinPower

Member
Ahh, thank you. So after a reading a rough translation, it looks like the quote was taken somewhat out of context.

"I live in a different paradigm. For me, Crimea and Donbass did not go anywhere, and these are exactly our territories. And they will not be happy without Ukraine. We see this in the territories where there is occupation - in Abkhazia, Transnistria, etc. I did not see any scientific breakthrough, cool businesses, skyscrapers in Hong Kong. I did not see life there. That's why I don't see happiness there. And when people are unhappy, they leave that territory. So, it will be "dead" territory. It will be worse than Chernobyl. Because even tourists come to Chernobyl. And these will be just "dead" regions, unfortunately."

Source
I went through Russian sources and wouldn't say that words were taken out of context. Mentioning Chernobyl is what makes them so dire, but he said it twice, so can't really argue here.
 

Silent

Power Poster
Breaking: Russia has detained Ukrainian consul in Saint Petersburg for allegedly receiving restricted information

Ukrainian side is preparing a response against Russian diplomats after the detention of its consul in St. Petersburg - Ukrainian Foreign Ministry

 

Obreid

Power Poster
Expelling diplomats or detaining them has been so common it recent years it’s a hard indicator to follow.
its not a good indicator either way though.

I watched the actual video of him being detained.
very calm no guns drawn no throwing anyone against the wall or floors.
I think at least on the take down I’d rather be detained by the FSB than the FBI or some metro swat teams.
 

Silent

Power Poster
U.S. ambassador to Russia John Sullivan reportedly doesn't want to leave Moscow & go back home "for consultations" as the Kremlin told him to do. Russian press and their diplomatic sources say that Russia might force the U.S. Ambassador's departure, for the first time since 1952.

 

Silent

Power Poster
It is rumored online that, fearing mass deployment of Bayraktar TB2 drones from Kyiv, Russia has given forces in the DNR/LNR Krasukha-4 units to help fend off drone attacks.

 

DarkNoon

Well-known member
U.S. ambassador to Russia John Sullivan reportedly doesn't want to leave Moscow & go back home "for consultations" as the Kremlin told him to do. Russian press and their diplomatic sources say that Russia might force the U.S. Ambassador's departure, for the first time since 1952.

Good. Russia has no intention on working with us or being a normal acting party in the international community so why bother to stay.

We. Will. Gain. Nothing. With. Russia. Sooner people get that the faster we can move on and leave em in the dust.

Cut em off from the world 100% and let them rot to death in their own little corner of the world until they learn.
 

Obreid

Power Poster
Good. Russia has no intention on working with us or being a normal acting party in the international community so why bother to stay.

We. Will. Gain. Nothing. With. Russia. Sooner people get that the faster we can move on and leave em in the dust.

Cut em off from the world 100% and let them rot to death in their own little corner of the world until they learn.
I disagree we do need to confront them when appropriate, absolutely.
Not talking to adversaries rarely improves the situation.
And I still would rather work with them than the CCP.
We have two antagonist in Russia and China, it’s better to keep them divided and Russia’s much less of a threat to us.
 

Nhmike

New member
This guy scares the hell out of me. I've read his stuff for years and have always hoped him wrong. Nonetheless, this is a good read.
 

Silent

Power Poster
We have two antagonist in Russia and China, it’s better to keep them divided and Russia’s much less of a threat to us.
--------------------------------------
too late
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For those who think the US could win a war against Russia / China

I do not know why some believe the US could win a 2 front war (China will take the opportunity and will attack Taiwan). Should it come to it, the US is in big trouble
Since the Civil War, the US has not experienced a war in its own field. This will be different this time.
I hope it never happens, otherwise good luck, the US will need it.
 

Silent

Power Poster
The domestic situation in/around #Donetsk continues to worsen. Food shortages are emerging around local food stores. Emergency shelters are cleaned and opened, as are local hospitals.

 
N

Nameless_one

Guest
We have two antagonist in Russia and China, it’s better to keep them divided and Russia’s much less of a threat to us.
--------------------------------------
too late
------------------------
For those who think the US could win a war against Russia / China

I do not know why some believe the US could win a 2 front war (China will take the opportunity and will attack Taiwan). Should it come to it, the US is in big trouble
Since the Civil War, the US has not experienced a war in its own field. This will be different this time.
I hope it never happens, otherwise good luck, the US will need it.

Not true. It's two different wars. China/Taiwan will be a naval war. And the Chinese navy could not match the strength of the US navy. Likewise, the strength of the Russian fleet is in Europe. They can't project much power out into the Pacific.

Conversely, the Russian war would be a land war. And China doesn't have the capability to transport troops that far.
 
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