Ukraine April 2021

Status
Not open for further replies.

DEFCON Warning System

Director
Staff member
I can't find any source beyond outliers. However, the statement as quoted is kind of wishy-washy.

“I think you are very aware that the Biden administration remains committed to ensuring that NATO’s door remains open to aspirants when they are ready and able to meet commitments and obligations. We are committed certainly to ensuring that the country like Ukraine can work to meet those standards,” Acting US Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs Philip Reeker told reporters Friday.
If the quote is true, Russia can't be happy about it.
 

MichaelH

Active member

A better internet ninja than me can probably figure out what the change on April 27 was, but there's some interesting language on here. The page does acknowledge that Ukraine has established NATO membership as a goal.
 

TheChrome

Power Poster
It doesn't seem like the European Parliament statement has been picked up on the board. Forgive me if it a repost:

Should military build-up lead to an invasion of Ukraine by Russia, the EU must make clear the consequences for such a violation of international law and norms would be severe, MEPs agreed. Such a scenario must result in an immediate halt to EU imports of oil and gas from Russia, the exclusion of Russia from the SWIFT payment system and the freezing of assets and cancellation of visas for Europe of all oligarchs tied to the Russian authorities.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news...d-up-attack-in-czechia-and-jailing-of-navalny
 

DEFCON Warning System

Director
Staff member
Such a scenario must result in an immediate halt to EU imports of oil and gas from Russia, the exclusion of Russia from the SWIFT payment system and the freezing of assets and cancellation of visas for Europe of all oligarchs tied to the Russian authorities.
Let's see if Europe has the fortitude to actually implement that.
 

bartok

Member
Let's see if Europe has the fortitude to actually implement that.
excuse-me... 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Europe has the fortitude to implement what?! Why EU didn't say that when the Ukranian crisis was in place, and it says that now instead, days afeter, when there is 0 risk to spit in the face of Russia? Think about "fortitude", search "fortitute" in the dictionay of antonyms: this is EU. EU is not credible in anything and it doesn't represents nothing and nobody. I wonder how long it could last this useless institution with the sole purpose to give salaries, if it really cut gas and oil supplies form Russia leaving Europe without gas, that is as cutting one's XXX to spite the wife. I almost hope so.
 

bartok

Member
We still need to consider this threat an escalation, even if they do not have the ability or willingness to back it up. Has Russia responded to this?
Yes, it has responded, decraing "persona non grata" some senior officials of EU, including the Italian David Sassoli who is the president of the EU parliament.
 

RiffRaff

Deputy Director
Staff member
Yes, it has responded, decraing "persona non grata" some senior officials of EU, including the Italian David Sassoli who is the president of the EU parliament.
So we're still doing the tit-for-tat thing with the diplomats.

I swear, the only difference between an elementary school playground at recess and global politics during a crisis is access to WMD.
 

MichaelH

Active member
So we're still doing the tit-for-tat thing with the diplomats.

I swear, the only difference between an elementary school playground at recess and global politics during a crisis is access to WMD.
In my humble government position far from the halls of nuclear power, I've seen that petty personal bickering, greed, and vanity are basically the only things that drive action. That might be an overstatement I guess, but all of the dumb things we've done and at least half of the smart things could be traced directly to that.
 
R

Rusty Shackleford

Guest

The phrasing of this needs analyzed very closely. If I understand correctly, Ukraine will never meet NATO standards due to the issues with Donbas and Crimea. So is this the west's version of giving Ukraine what they want knowing they'll never qualify? And if so, why? This statement will only antagonize Russia.
Realistically, how long are we looking for this to take place if it goes through? Could Ukraine be admitted as a member to NATO within the next couple months? A year? Just curious, and how does the admission process work, is there a chance a fellow NATO country like France or Germany could veto it? Thanks!
 

DEFCON Warning System

Director
Staff member
Could Ukraine be admitted as a member to NATO within the next couple months? A year?
Not a chance. NATO isn't going to obligate itself to a country that has already been invaded and annexed. That would tangle NATO into a fight right out of the gate.

NATO's overtures to Ukraine is just a warning to Russia.
 

Obreid

Power Poster
Not a chance. NATO isn't going to obligate itself to a country that has already been invaded and annexed. That would tangle NATO into a fight right out of the gate.

NATO's overtures to Ukraine is just a warning to Russia.
True but NATO can commit themselves to military aid training and exercises with Ukraine. I wonder how Russia would view that.
Wait we’ve already done those things.
Sweden and Finland are not in nato but by all accounts this is just a technicality to avoid ruffling Russia unnecessarily.


But in today’s world which is greater? A shaky treat or actual military aid and combined training. Which will be more valuable? Integration with US militaries systems supplies and tactics or the hope that Germany and France “might” actually stand and deliver and come to Ukraine in time of need. I suspect that German and French leaders only view a risk to nato and consequently themselves IF their is some remote risk of nuclear conflict. They both have hundreds of miles of land and other armies to buffer them.
Far as I can tell in the US the EU nations don’t even trust each other let alone Russia.

it’s a tired old question I think most of us all know the answer too, we just don’t like it.

Is that America aiding a sympathetic weaker nation in danger. Or the west supporting a proxy?
sometimes I can’t tell the difference
 

RiffRaff

Deputy Director
Staff member
France test-fired an M51 ICBM 3 days ago? How did we miss this? And is it part of NATO's saber rattling with Russia or unrelated?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top