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Well then

Was just pointing out Trump is no savior. Trump is very much like Obama. Not on view points obviously.

Obama promised the world for the liberal base. In the end when he left office nothing really changed we where still in the same place when he took office.

Trump promised the world to conservative base. In the end when he left office nothing really changed we where still in the same place when he took office.

See? Faces may change, but policy, laws, institutions, and procedures never really change. So people just need to stop putting so much god like faith into ordinary politicians only good for talking to the base.

The base of any party isn't important, they will vote the same everytime, it's why their called a base. Politicians just need to focus on their jobs and not people who already have their mind made up indefinitely on how they vote.
 
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really want to know what is so incredibly different about the Government Trump changed? Nothing. Same old crap as it always was and worse.
Renegotiated NAFTA and trade deals with China and other Asian nations. He had the balls to slap tariffs on China to get them to make concessions.
Forced European countries to increase their nato contributions.
Got us out of the Paris climate deal.
Extricated us from Syria
He was the first president to actually begin to make some changes to hardening our infrastructure from electronic disruption.
Began the draw down in Afghanistan with minimal losses of life. And basically told them your going to have to stand or fall on your own.
Toughened up on Iran in real ways
He didn’t have a problem unleashing hell on Syrian and Russian contractors when they attacked an American outpost. He didn’t hobble the military when they needed to do their thing. But he constantly fought the military to draw down and get out of the Middle East where we could, and it was a fight to get them to do it.
The Abraham accords with Israel UAE Morocco and Bahrain. Moved the US embassy to Jerusalem, something past presidents have promised for years, who knew it was so easy to do?
Some tax reforms which put money in average workers pockets,
First president to appoint a openly gay man to his cabinet. Wow who knew he was so enlightened.
He did raise gov spending which we actually knew he was going to do because he actually said he would spend more. I didn’t agree but at least he was honest about it.

The great irony is that many of the things we would have liked him to do he couldn’t, why because constitutionally it wasn’t his job or in his power to do. That’s kinda the same thing as Lincoln didn’t free all the slaves only the ones in the confederation because they were in rebellion and under Marshal law.
Just like it’s not within the presidents power to institute mass lockdowns and mask nationwide, unless he’s willing to declare marshal law.
As far as judges Trump was able to appoint far more judges to the federal courts top down than most presidents ever dreamed of.
I didn’t even do any research to pull things I can’t recall.
I’ll say it again no he wasn’t perfect and no one we elect will ever be perfect.

Anytime someone even remotely from the outside of the beltway has a chance at the presidency the media and gov establishment go nuts. They did so with Reagan, Barry Goldwater, Ross Perot, Ron Paul, Bernie Sanders, Even Rand Paul he was my first choice for president but you know what I don’t think he would have accomplished as much because he’s not tough and low down dog dirty mean enough to do what it would take.
Im mean let’s face it to be a president at any time is a tough job. Probably the toughest job their is. And to be one now is off the scales, you either have to be a immovable force that just keeps punching back. Or you just go along.

As far as parties go in 2016 Sanders had the primary he had the support of the people. And what happens the Democratic leadership said so what your not it. Probably the single biggest contribution to trump winning was that. The party snubbed their noses at the voters and said we don’t care.
The republicans threw 16 candidates at trump till the bloody end they fought him hard at every turn right up to the convention. But in the end the party rules carried the day and like it or not they did not tell their voters so what.

So yes he did make a difference not as much as I would have liked but he redirected a monolithic state in a positive way. And he still mobilizes a large constituency and will more than likely be the republican candidate in 24.
The midterms will be very telling which way the country will go.
But probably not as telling as I would hope.
 
Yes foreign affairs any president including Obama change. I should of clarified change at home, change in our government, not another.

But that is the story of almost every president. Promise change at home, but never deliver. As you say it's really not the president job to make change at home. A presidents main job is foreign affairs.
 
Yes foreign affairs any president including Obama change. I should of clarified change at home, change in our government, not another.

But that is the story of almost every president. Promise change at home, but never deliverm
You know what that’s not the job of the executive branch. Except for executing the laws congress writes and appointing judges the rest is all on congress. And negotiate trade arrangements.
They can layout an agenda but it’s up to the house and senate to do the work.

Not the king at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
So within the parameters of the constitution he pretty much acted where he could.
and compared to Obama he didn’t try to topple two foreign nations governments succeeding with one.

oh and I forgot actually began to fix the illegal immigration problem.
 
You know what that’s not the job of the executive branch. Except for executing the laws congress writes and appointing judges the rest is all on congress.
And when has it played out like that the past 4-5 decades? The presidents role is foreign affairs and that pretty much sums up most of the big actions a president does now.
 
Trumps plan is equally as messed up as the liberals plan for immigration. Just messed up in their unique ways on both sides.

Just don't understand why both sides have to take things to the extreme end of things when it comes to immigration. x_x
All I here you saying is both are wrong and that’s ok if you disagree with their policies. So what’s the correct policy for immigration?
Our response shouldn’t just be both sides policies are too extreme. Give voice to what should be our policy.
Mine would be fix the illegal crossing and fix our immigration laws to allow controlled increase the number of immigrants we allow in under green cards. And then increase those specialized trades for citizenship.
take control of the faucet don’t let the coyotes and cartels profit from it.
But that requires congress to fix the laws and make it permanent. Not capricious from admin to admin.,
 
So what’s the correct policy for immigration?
Somewhere in the middle of closed border & complete open borders.

Completely rejecting everyone and anyone in the world to live here or becoming citizens is wrong.

Liberals letting every harmed or poor soul in the country isn't right either.

We just need a refined selective border. Letting in people whom can take care of themselves, and let in a low flow of immigrants to fill the farms an other very low skilled labor jobs that need filling.
 
Exactly, pretty much as I would hope for.
I know there are some vocal Trump supporters that wanted the boarders slammed shut. But that wasn’t the actual policy there was an increase in trade visas. What really needs addressed is a functional system for untrained immigrants and seasonal workers. Make it easier and predictable.
immigrants are the life blood of America we are all immigrants except for native Americans. Making a functional immigration integrates them into the country as Americans. Allowing illegal immigration keeps them separate and not invested in the nation.
 
I categorically disagree to the military taking charge. That is only the concentration of military power into the hands of the few. Those same few are just as entwined into the power structure of Washington and self interest.
I agree with you that Trump was a chance, not a perfect one, but a chance at change.
It will take more than just a president and a few congress persons to make lasting change.
It has to come from the bottom up, from the voters.
Until local communities tell their state governments to stuff it. And State governments tell the federal governments to stuff it nothing will ever change.
The strength and the power is always within our own hands and communities.
We are a large geographic nation and we are a heavily armed civilian population. No I’m not advocating violence. I’m only starting that if and when enough people, communities, and states tell the corrupt politicians and gov workers to take a hike. And mean it then they really have no recourse do they. Sure they can roll in and arrest a few but they will be outnumbered 100 to 1.
alas we are no where near that point. Not for violence, but of mass coordinated civil disobedience.

why not? they pulled it off in Portland with the CHOP “whatever”.
That was funny that was a bunch of outside organized radicals and suburban kids. And everyone just patted them on the head saying your so cute and entertaining.
Or maybe truckers blockaid all the freeways into Washington and the airports. Load all their rigs up with laborers union guys and call it a mass civilian highway safety inspection. It should only take a day or two.
Don’t forget the rail lines shut them down for the same period.
Then the electrical workers unions cut the power to a large metro area.

Voting sure seems to have accomplish nothing much of anything anymore.
Theirs no faith in it really. If one candidate wins all the other candidates base says they cheated. And visa versa the other way. Everyone else just doesn’t vote because they’ve already decided it’s a waste.

So elections in america are waste of time and effort.
Where does that leave us?
No where good,
We’ve been turned into a nation of tribes and clans, sound familiar.
simply the exercise of power for the betterment and enrichment of my tribe or clan.
They won it seems.
RIP

It should have been obvious that the Democrats cheated as they were caught on video doing it several times among tons of eye whiteness who were later shot at or threatened into not testifying because they had family's to worry about.

The military has to relieve the current Government for the people and they could set up a completely new civilian government in a week. It's either that or we will see another civil war.

The Democrats have the CIA backing them so they will just cheat again and if the military doesn't step up within days a civil war is exactly what we will have. If BoBo doesn't get us in a peer war or we see a major middle east war situation before the election.

Voting machines need to be tossed out and the military needs to have the national guard oversee the voting in every aspect.
 
I really want to know what is so incredibly different about the Government Trump changed? Nothing. Same old crap as it always was and worse.

Changing SCOTUS was not Trump. He was just lucky enough to be in office when they died or retired & it's his job to fill empty seats. So no he didn't do that. He was just in the right place at the right time doing the most basic element of his job picking someone.

So if doing the most ordinary & basic part of a job is changing things, please rethink.
Then why did Biden spend days signing executive orders that only reversed Trump's changes??? You need to do your research. Trump changed a lot for the better.
 
It should have been obvious that the Democrats cheated as they were caught on video doing it several times among tons of eye whiteness who were later shot at or threatened into not testifying because they had family's to worry about.
While the videos are widely known, I'd like to see a source that witnesses to the crimes were "shot at" or "threatened".

The military has to relieve the current Government for the people and they could set up a completely new civilian government in a week.
You're suggesting a military coup to overthrow the government?
 
What, we can't even state the obvious now?? You hate both parties ok got it lol. You do know that you have to pick a side or just stay out of the discussion blah blah blah blah Trump something blah blah blah..
I have picked a side. I have stated clearly what my side is. The fact that you and others do not recognize it as a "legitimate" side is not my problem; it's yours.

And I'll participate in any damn discussion as I please.
 
I have picked a side.
I know nobody asked but never clarified what I am other than me saying both parties lick dung beatles.

I am a centrists. I tend to lean left & right as both sides have good talking points.

The bases of left & right ruin the parties for me by taking it to extreme political spectrums. So mostly all the time in the middle aka centrist.

I use to be libertarian as RiffRaff a long time ago. But that party changed over the decades and no longer suited my centrist ideals.

So I vote on candidates as individuals, not who their party is.
 
It should have been obvious that the Democrats cheated as they were caught on video doing it several times among tons of eye whiteness who were later shot at or threatened into not testifying because they had family's to worry about.

The military has to relieve the current Government for the people and they could set up a completely new civilian government in a week. It's either that or we will see another civil war.

The Democrats have the CIA backing them so they will just cheat again and if the military doesn't step up within days a civil war is exactly what we will have. If BoBo doesn't get us in a peer war or we see a major middle east war situation before the election.

Voting machines need to be tossed out and the military needs to have the national guard oversee the voting in every aspect.
There is no constitutional process for that. Although that’s the next step towards a banana republic. And it will be painted as the good patriotic generals stepping in to save democracy.
Sound familiar?
 
And that is why I vacillate back and forth between defending the constitutional process, and questioning why we are not in active rebellion today.

If voting doesn’t matter anymore. And raw political power trumps everything then what are we doing?
 
And that is why I vacillate back and forth between defending the constitutional process, and questioning why we are not in active rebellion today.

If voting doesn’t matter anymore. And raw political power trumps everything then what are we doing?
We did it to ourselves. Through single-issue voting and party-ticket voting over the past century, our parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents got us to the point we are now, which is a divided, deadlocked country distracted by issues that politicians deliberately use to keep us divided and deadlocked. Nothing is going to change unless the American people agree to unite and vote every single incumbent politician out of office on the next election cycle. Unfortunately, that means Democrats would have to vote for Republicans and Republicans would have to vote for Democrats, which will never happen in this quantum reality.

Every vote I cast is designed to unseat those who are currently in power, and that means I sometimes have to vote for main party candidates that I really don't want in office, but their election would serve a greater purpose than keeping the incumbent in office. I am in a very small minority of people trying to accomplish this. It is a legal overthrow of the existing government by using their own election system against them to evict them from their positions of power. This would send a huge message to the newly elected politicians: We can put you there, and we can take you back out if you do not represent our best interests instead of your own.

This might be a pipe dream, but so was the founding of this country in the first place. I can vote with a clean conscience knowing that I am at least trying to break the cycle, not perpetrate it.

The primary reason I stay out of this Politics forum is because I see all the bickering and insults flying between conservatives and liberals as a part of the problem, not a result of it. If you guys don't figure out how to come together despite your differences and work towards a common goal of taking our country back from the corporate overlords IN BOTH PARTIES, we are doomed. And by the time you figure out we're doomed, it will be too late.
 
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