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What Comes After

Raised some good points.
1 Trump has to strike (political)
2 what comes after?
3 this in my mind indicates that anything that is done has to be massive with the intent of regime change.
4 what comes after?

So we’ll see,
 
DEFCON Warning System said:
Probably nothing. The US doesn't have the will to do what is necessary to topple the government, let alone the clean up. This isn't Venezuela.
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That’s where the hesitation is in striking Iran. And it wouldn’t matter if there was the will to do it. We tried nation building twice in the Middle East 15-20 years of nation building.
This is a cold hard fact that should always be remembered when nation building is considered.
In order to rebuild something you must destroy it first. You must be willing to break their spirit to fight so much they are willing to change.

That said I am not say this is how we should pursue wars. Only that if we are going to resort to war we must be clear eyed about what it will cost.

We snatched Maduro in like a thief in the night and put the Venezuelan gov on notice to change. I’m personally still waiting to see if it worked.

We can annihilate the IRGC infrastructure and target its leaders and the Ayatollah’s. But for change to happen it’s going to have to be those that have been protesting. We’re going to have to arm them thru the Kurds and MEK. And we’re then going to have to turn. Blind eye while they do what they need to do to finish it.
Iran is just like Iraq they have a more broadly educated population. But they have zero history of representative government.
This is the difficulty for me.
Life needs to change for the Iranians and Middle East. But there are minimal assurances it will be what we hoped for.

We can bribe Iran or we can damage thrm from time to time to deter any nuclear development. Maybe a comprehensive decapitation strike couple with some target assassination will give the protesters what they need.

And let’s be honest about espionage and targeted assassination in nations. This is reality. A person can hold their nose or stick their nose up in the air. This is foreign nation power competition with lives and billions of dollars on the line. And this is what nations do.

The old hypothetical question of what if someone had just killed Hitler in 1933. Imagine all the pain and suffering the “world “ would have been spared.

I’m not God and I can’t answer the morality of it but I can say it’s what nations have been doing to each other for a millennia.
 
Publius said:
That’s where the hesitation is in striking Iran. And it wouldn’t matter if there was the will to do it. We tried nation building twice in the Middle East 15-20 years of nation building.
This is a cold hard fact that should always be remembered when nation building is considered.
In order to rebuild something you must destroy it first. You must be willing to break their spirit to fight so much they are willing to change.

That said I am not say this is how we should pursue wars. Only that if we are going to resort to war we must be clear eyed about what it will cost.

We snatched Maduro in like a thief in the night and put the Venezuelan gov on notice to change. I’m personally still waiting to see if it worked.

We can annihilate the IRGC infrastructure and target its leaders and the Ayatollah’s. But for change to happen it’s going to have to be those that have been protesting. We’re going to have to arm them thru the Kurds and MEK. And we’re then going to have to turn. Blind eye while they do what they need to do to finish it.
Iran is just like Iraq they have a more broadly educated population. But they have zero history of representative government.
This is the difficulty for me.
Life needs to change for the Iranians and Middle East. But there are minimal assurances it will be what we hoped for.

We can bribe Iran or we can damage thrm from time to time to deter any nuclear development. Maybe a comprehensive decapitation strike couple with some target assassination will give the protesters what they need.

And let’s be honest about espionage and targeted assassination in nations. This is reality. A person can hold their nose or stick their nose up in the air. This is foreign nation power competition with lives and billions of dollars on the line. And this is what nations do.

The old hypothetical question of what if someone had just killed Hitler in 1933. Imagine all the pain and suffering the “world “ would have been spared.

I’m not God and I can’t answer the morality of it but I can say it’s what nations have been doing to each other for a millennia.
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theory dos'nt always match practical . ME has proven this time and time again. Iran isn't any different.
 
Yingyang said:
As for what comes after , well that is hardly ever thought out properly or planned , especially longterm. Many examples exist.
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Yes like Ukraine and Vietnam for China. China watched up in Vietnam for ten years. And after we left they tried to invade from the north.

It seems to be a universal weakness
 
Maybe our team could slice snd dice the world and …….😂😂😂😂 Maybe…. fix it, sorry best i could think of 🥂
 
Its time to review George Orwell,
What come after may lie in his ponderings?
Every war when it comes, or before it comes, is represented not as a war but as an act of self-defense against a homicidal maniac. In our time political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. But if thought corrupts language, language can also corrupt thought. All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting. Political language...is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidarity to pure wind. War against a foreign country only happens when the moneyed classes think they are going to profit from it. Nationalism is power hunger tempered by self-deception. War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. (On the manipulation of language for political ends.) We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act.
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George Orwell
 
The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous. Hierarchical society is only possible on the basis of poverty and ignorance. This new version is the past and no different past can ever have existed. In principle the war effort is always planned to keep society on the brink of starvation. The war is waged by the ruling group against its own subjects and its object is not the victory over either Eurasia or East Asia, but to keep the very structure of society intact.

George Orwell
 
Lostpuppy said:
The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous. Hierarchical society is only possible on the basis of poverty and ignorance. This new version is the past and no different past can ever have existed. In principle the war effort is always planned to keep society on the brink of starvation. The war is waged by the ruling group against its own subjects and its object is not the victory over either Eurasia or East Asia, but to keep the very structure of society intact.

George Orwell
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Iran knows very well that it has no chance of winning; its goal is to resist, waiting for the Americans to leave. As for the aftermath, if Iran becomes too weak to control the region, Israel will control it. And since the corrupt Arab Gulf states are pro-American but much less pro-Israel, will they accept Israel being the sole power in the region?
 
GBS61 said:
As for the aftermath, if Iran becomes too weak to control the region, Israel will control it. And since the corrupt Arab Gulf states are pro-American but much less pro-Israel, will they accept Israel being the sole power in the region?
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I don't think Israel is interested in being a regional power. They just want to be left alone.
 
GBS61 said:
Iran knows very well that it has no chance of winning; its goal is to resist, waiting for the Americans to leave. As for the aftermath, if Iran becomes too weak to control the region, Israel will control it. And since the corrupt Arab Gulf states are pro-American but much less pro-Israel, will they accept Israel being the sole power in the region?
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Iran, and or its proxys and its students of its ideolygy, beaten or not may pose a clear and continues risk to states it opposes,
Think of support that was in afganastan against the Soviets who invaded. What happened to that support after the Soviets bailed out,
What organisation evolved from that?
Will people of these nations now live in fear? Ask the residents of downtown Belfast what fear is?
Orwellian?
Iran I agree, had no chance of winning, the cost of winning is extreme, now have the costs turned worse?

A riddle? perhaps, 🤔🎢
 
It is totally up to the Iranian people weather or not they want regime change. Destroy their nuclear, military, weapons, and weapons manufacturing. Play wack a mole with the extremist leaders. Sure they can still do minor occasional terrorist attacks but it will be many years before they can become a serious threat again in the region.
 
Now what shall we pray for, let's pray for our peace.
From Cape Town to Belfast, from Glasgow to Greece
And if we have one year, may we also have ten".
"May there never be another war", said the soldier, "Amen"

Song, Soldier and a Sailor….
Food for thought
 
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