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DEFCON 4 | Europe Crisis | December 2021

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DEFCON Warning System said:
Are they quoting Putin? Or are they just parroting the paraphrase someone else did?
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Not entirely sure. Just keep reading:
Either the U.S. and NATO provide us with “legal guarantees” that Ukraine will never join NATO or become a base for weapons that can threaten Russia — or we will go in and guarantee it ourselves.
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Then follows all the actions Russia is taking and what Putins red lines are.
 
DarkNoon said:
Either the U.S. and NATO provide us with “legal guarantees” that Ukraine will never join NATO or become a base for weapons that can threaten Russia — or we will go in and guarantee it ourselves.
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Yeah, but what I am asking is if Putin actually said that of if someone is just drawing their own conclusions based on some other stuff.

First is really bad.

Second is someone just trying to stir the pot.
 
💬 Short Remark (not a report!):
Either the U.S. and #NATO provide us with “legal guarantees” that #Ukraine will never join NATO or become a base for weapons that can threaten #Russia — or we will go in and guarantee it ourselves.
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This got my blood boiling. It's about time that this dangerous criminal gets removed from leading a country - especially when this country is a nuclear power. This kind of "history reinterpretation" (although this "history" is with 2014 not so long ago) - or lying to use the correct word - is an audacity in itself. He wants legal guarantees? Like the Budapest Memorandum his lapdog Lawrov signed? But hey - who needs international law, when you've got an army, eh? :mad:
Perhaps it would have been better if the US had stationed troops in the Ukraine in fullfilment of the Budapest Memorandum to avoid further land grabbing by Putler. The the MAD-mechanism would have worked and the Tsar could not have pulled his stunts because of the mutual assured destruction that would be the result of an attack on US-soldiers.
But whatever: If there's one thing, Iran and North Korea can learn from this is: don't trust any guarantees, get nukes ASAP and *never* give them up. And personally I find it highly unsettling that this message gets so clearly sent to those regimes.


ℹ️Info:

The Russian military station "The Buzzer" from the Western Military District went suddenly quiet this evening and is still not broadcasting its usual typical channel marker.
This has happened several times in the past (and according to priyom.org this is due to old equipment being used), but since he went silent quiet around the time the Biden-Putin-Conference ended, I think it's at least worth mentioning (although it most likely is a pure coincidence and all the other similiar stations send their channel marker just fine).


⚠️ Reports:
❕Interesting:
Should Russia attempt to use energy as a weapon or commit further aggressive acts against Ukraine, Germany will take action at the national level and press for effective measures at the European level, including sanctions, to limit Russian export capabilities to Europe in the energy sector, including gas, and/or in other economically relevant sectors," the US and Germany had said in a joint statement in July after the deal was struck.
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www.dw.com

Biden warns Russia over Ukraine conflict

The two leaders talked via videolink amid a tense standoff over Ukraine. US officials said Russia would face severe sanctions if troops crossed the border into Ukranian territory.
www.dw.com www.dw.com

❕In the german version there's something interesting that isn't in the english version of the article. I try to translate using my school english:
The video call between the presidents of Russia and the USA ended sooner as even the Kremlin expected. (...) The conference of the US-president Joe Biden and the russian leader Wladimir Putin will take "as long as needed", a Kremlin spokesperson had said on the afternoon. In light of the multitude of conflict points it could be a very long conversation. But after approximatly just two hours the video conference was over again.
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Original:
Der Videogipfel zwischen den Präsidenten Russlands und der USA war schneller vorbei, als selbst der Kreml erwartet hatte. (...) Die Konferenz von US-Präsident Joe Biden und dem russischen Staatschef Wladimir Putin werde "so lange dauern wie nötig", hatte ein Kreml-Sprecher am Nachmittag noch gesagt. Angesichts der Vielzahl von Konfliktthemen könne es auch ein sehr langes Gespräch werden. Doch nach rund zwei Stunden war der Videogipfel schon wieder vorbei.
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www.dw.com

Biden und Putin: Nach zwei Stunden war alles gesagt

Der Videogipfel zwischen den Präsidenten Russlands und der USA war schneller vorbei, als selbst der Kreml erwartet hatte. Noch sind Informationen über Verlauf und Inhalte des Gesprächs zwischen Putin und Biden spärlich.
www.dw.com www.dw.com
 
DEFCON Warning System said:
Yeah, but what I am asking is if Putin actually said that of if someone is just drawing their own conclusions based on some other stuff.

First is really bad.

Second is someone just trying to stir the pot.
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Since the articles are not being clear I'd take it with a grain of salt. Read zerohedge and the others. All copying each other not sure who the orginal source is.

So conclusion the articles are misleading with Putin threatening direct action against Finland & Ukraine if demands are not met.
 
novaB said:
💬The video call between the presidents of Russia and the USA ended sooner as even the Kremlin expected. (...) The conference of the US-president Joe Biden and the russian leader Wladimir Putin will take "as long as needed", a Kremlin spokesperson had said on the afternoon. In light of the multitude of conflict points it could be a very long conversation. But after approximatly just two hours the video conference was over again.
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Interesting if true.
 
If this goes on like this we must fear the worst and Putin will invade Ukraine he has given the redline in my opinion and don't think NATO will back off this time.
 
DEFCON Warning System said:
Yeah, but what I am asking is if Putin actually said that of if someone is just drawing their own conclusions based on some other stuff.

First is really bad.

Second is someone just trying to stir the pot.
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I'm fairly certain the article is interpreting the Kremlin's words and posturing as the paraphrase given. As far as I can tell, it's not a direct quote of any single individual and instead is probably meant to represent the author's viewpoint on what the Kremlin is trying to say. In effect, the second thing.

That's just my opinion however, and the source given is clearly biased, so grain of salt imo.
 
DEFCON Warning System said:
Interesting if true.
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DW is IMO a very trustworthy source being part of the public media of Germany. On a quick search I found another source for this, but this time I don't know if the source is trustworthy or not - but here it is:
The whole meeting will be closed, there will be no live broadcast, while a video of the first minutes of the meeting will be shared on the Kremlin website, Peskov told reporters in Moscow.
"We believe that this will be a sufficiently thorough and lengthy video conference, held via a secure line of communication. We think that it will be lengthy in time," he said.
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Source: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/politics/u...to-hold-closed-video-meeting-on-dec-7/2440107

I'm trying to find a more direct source for this at the moment and will post it, if I find one.
 
So, the biggest part of this situation turned out to be striking weapons. Quoting Russian President press-release:
Joseph Biden, for his part, emphasized the allegedly “threatening” nature of the movements of Russian troops near the Ukrainian borders and outlined sanctions measures that the United States and its allies would be ready to apply in the event of a further escalation of the situation.

In response, Vladimir Putin stressed that the responsibility should not be shifted onto the shoulders of Russia, since it is NATO that is making dangerous attempts to conquer Ukrainian territory and is building up its military potential at our borders. Therefore, Russia is seriously interested in obtaining reliable, legally fixed guarantees excluding the expansion of NATO in the eastern direction and the deployment of offensive strike weapons systems in the states adjacent to Russia.
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Putin needs guarantees that there will be no missiles near his border. It seems that treaty like "IRNFT" (Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty)" is a vital part for today's world stability, and countries must re-establish it which is out of interest of United States that keeps deploying them around the Europe and saturating military might at neighbouring states, meanwhile blaming responding countries in aggression. Re-establishing of strategic treaties seems like a hard work, and even if both sides were willing, it will take a lot of time to make them effective.
 
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