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UA-RU | May 1st-20th | DISCUSSIONS

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We’ve been hearing this over and over for two months.
I think we should take them are their word and launch preemptive attacks tonight.

Oh oh oh how could I say something so crazy and irresponsible. Well why the hell not it’s ok for Russia to behave like a petulant bully and continually make aggressive and irresponsible threats.
Maybe some of you are correct and Putin is a mad dog he will go nuclear.,
If that’s correct hitting them first is the only logical play.
 
Maybe some of you are correct and Putin is a mad dog he will go nuclear.,
If that’s correct hitting them first is the only logical play.
Unfortunately, whomever launches nuclear weapons first will go down in history as the bad guy, whether it's deserved or not. "No first use" should be the official policy of every nuclear-armed nation, but that ship has sailed.
 
Unfortunately, whomever launches nuclear weapons first will go down in history as the bad guy, whether it's deserved or not. "No first use" should be the official policy of every nuclear-armed nation, but that ship has sailed.
I realize that, it was sarcasm to stir up apologist for Russia.
The only thing you hear is don’t back Russia into a corner. But no one calls out Russia for threatening to use nukes to achieve their offensive ends.
They were for deterrence for decades, the thought or even whiff of a nuclear power threatening to use them to achieve conventional goals was a non starter
 
Unfortunately, whomever launches nuclear weapons first will go down in history as the bad guy, whether it's deserved or not. "No first use" should be the official policy of every nuclear-armed nation, but that ship has sailed.
Well the USA has used 2 atomic bombs (ww2) are they in your opinion the bad guys?
 
What's the difference between an overt and an implied threat of a Nuclear first strike though? Would love to hear your thoughts on that.
When speaking about something with the consequences such as using nuclear weapons there is little to no difference.
It should stay firmly in the box of MAD.
Unfortunately it won’t stay that way will it.
Specifically though an overt threat would be “you do this and we’ll respond with this”
In implied would be “by taking these actions you are forcing us into a position where we might responded with nuclear warhead. Or frequently reminding your neighbors you have nuclear weapons that could destroy your nation in a whirlwind of fire.
 
Is mutual destruction really assured though? I think about that a lot yet don't read much of it on the forums. The level of preparation on the Nation State level should be taken into consideration whenever someone implies or overtly threatens that they will use Nuclear weapons. It should be taken into consideration even in peaceful times.

Is there an imbalance of power here? Why would the Russians threaten to use their Hypersonic Nuclear missile delivery systems on the Western World? Is it really a battle for survival here or not?

Some members here have said it's an empty threat and a bullying tactic. I personally think they're not playing around and will resort to the use of Nuclear Weapons if they feel there is no alternative.

I'm also aware of U.S. politicians in the Senate no less publicly declaring we should launch a first strike.

Thankfully, there are a lot of preparedness articles here on the site. I'm surprised that we've come to this over the Ukraine I thought the odds were greater that it would be India/Pakistan or China.
 
Is mutual destruction really assured though? I think about that a lot yet don't read much of it on the forums. The level of preparation on the Nation State level should be taken into consideration whenever someone implies or overtly threatens that they will use Nuclear weapons. It should be taken into consideration even in peaceful times.

Is there an imbalance of power here? Why would the Russians threaten to use their Hypersonic Nuclear missile delivery systems on the Western World? Is it really a battle for survival here or not?

Some members here have said it's an empty threat and a bullying tactic. I personally think they're not playing around and will resort to the use of Nuclear Weapons if they feel there is no alternative.

I'm also aware of U.S. politicians in the Senate no less publicly declaring we should launch a first strike.

Thankfully, there are a lot of preparedness articles here on the site. I'm surprised that we've come to this over the Ukraine I thought the odds were greater that it would be India/Pakistan or China.
You know you might be right regarding Russia’s perception of a threat. I don’t agree that the nation or Russia and Russian culture is overtly threatened by the west. I would say the leadership (not just Putin) fears for their existence.

They fear the influence of the west.
So they can feel that and believe it to be true for them. But you also have 14 other nations, soon likely to be 15 who have voluntarily applied to be members of nato because they have recent historical memories of being invaded or absorbed first by Germany then by USSR. They do not want to be placed in the danger again. Ukraine is the perfect example of why nato has grown.

So what do you do disregard the 15 who do have fears of being invaded again for the one with the nuclear club and apparently is not afraid to roll it out and remind everyone to not forget they have a big gun in the closet.
Ukraine has committed to not join nato to remain independent. But that’s not enough for Russia. Russia wants them to be non aligned but their only security guarantees can come from Russia. Well what is that? That is the very reason those 13 old Warsaw pac nations sought to join nato in the first place.

Are they bluffing I can’t say for sure but in my gut I think they are.
Because at the root of why Russia invaded now was because they believed nato would not do anything of substance to stop them. And they thought they could roll Ukraine up in a couple of weeks and have their satrap installed in Kiev and all would be well.

In my recent post where I said we should just hit them with a first strike it was meant to be sarcasm. But how we do confront the reoccurring saber rattling of nuclear weapons and prove it to be an ineffective and unwise course of action. We will see it used again by Russia or any other nuclear armed nation. I don’t see rewarding it in any measure a solid course of action.

If it’s not confronted now I believe it will only encourage nuclear threats to be used again as policy for more expansionist moves. And consequently raise the risk of a nuclear exchange in the not too distant future.
 
Is mutual destruction really assured though? I think about that a lot yet don't read much of it on the forums. The level of preparation on the Nation State level should be taken into consideration whenever someone implies or overtly threatens that they will use Nuclear weapons. It should be taken into consideration even in peaceful times.

Is there an imbalance of power here? Why would the Russians threaten to use their Hypersonic Nuclear missile delivery systems on the Western World? Is it really a battle for survival here or not?

Some members here have said it's an empty threat and a bullying tactic. I personally think they're not playing around and will resort to the use of Nuclear Weapons if they feel there is no alternative.

I'm also aware of U.S. politicians in the Senate no less publicly declaring we should launch a first strike.

Thankfully, there are a lot of preparedness articles here on the site. I'm surprised that we've come to this over the Ukraine I thought the odds were greater that it would be India/Pakistan or China.
Wanna know why Russia may use nuclear weapons? If they have Ukraine and stay allied with China (which may blame us for Russia using nukes), they will certainly have extreme power and possibly reserve currency status (either china or russia)
Its about the world reserve currency, and theyve been clear about that since day 1 when they started suggesting the USD would lose reserve status over this war.
If they just nuke ukraine, CHANCES ARE, we will not respond with nuclear force. They would certainly win the war, and despite the efforts of the west, china and russia will be feeding the world while leading it technologically, and chinas already beating us on green energy, looks like we need to step up and feed the world, give the world cheap oil, and repair our currency before it isn't reserve.

The west be damned when Russia & China control pretty much the whole of Africa and Asia. People gotta eat and get their oil. If we further alienate china or india that will be the final nail in our coffin. The developing world will all rely on China, Russia, or India.
 
Maybe some of you are correct and Putin is a mad dog he will go nuclear.,
If that’s correct hitting them first is the only logical play.

You really care so much to see the word and your own Country destroyed! What do you thinck that happens if you strike first? Your nuke will find Russian silos empty when they arrives, and even in athe event that all C2 will be beheaded, Perimeter system will come into operation, launching ALL Russian atomic arsenal on all over the word, all Russian submarines will strike all their nukes. That seems to me really a nice perspective! And for what? Just to not have a neutral Ukaine.
 
You really care so much to see the word and your own Country destroyed! What do you thinck that happens if you strike first? Your nuke will find Russian silos empty when they arrives, and even in athe event that all C2 will be beheaded, Perimeter system will come into operation, launching ALL Russian atomic arsenal on all over the word, all Russian submarines will strike all their nukes. That seems to me really a nice perspective! And for what? Just to not have a neutral Ukaine.
Out of context and not looking at entirety of my post today. My First use proposal was used as sarcasm in response to repeated insinuations from Russia that they might use nuclear weapons to salvage their failed military adventurism in Ukraine.
NO I am not proposing first strike tactically or strategically. But I would also expect Russia to quit using repeated threats of nuclear weapons to impose their force of will on independent nations.
How reckless and dangerous of Russia to keep threatening nuclear attacks on others. It is Russia that has no concern for the well-being or future its own citizens to constantly be threatening to attack other nations. And for what? They don’t trust Russia and have chosen to join NATO.
Well why would they trust Russia given Russia’s actions this last year.
Russia made their case to Europe and Ukraine. It was rejected, rejection is not justification for invasion. That is the actions of a nation who places little value on human life.
 
Out of context and not looking at entirety of my post today. My First use proposal was used as sarcasm in response to repeated insinuations from Russia that they might use nuclear weapons to salvage their failed military adventurism in Ukraine.
NO I am not proposing first strike tactically or strategically. But I would also expect Russia to quit using repeated threats of nuclear weapons to impose their force of will on independent nations.
How reckless and dangerous of Russia to keep threatening nuclear attacks on others. It is Russia that has no concern for the well-being or future its own citizens to constantly be threatening to attack other nations. And for what? They don’t trust Russia and have chosen to join NATO.
Well why would they trust Russia given Russia’s actions this last year.
Russia made their case to Europe and Ukraine. It was rejected, rejection is not justification for invasion. That is the actions of a nation who places little value on human life.

I'm sorry, but I haven't understood the sarcasm, maybe because I'm not English or American.
But, for what I know, Russia continuously says that they will not use nukes in Ukraine and against Ukraine, but that a confrontation with NATO becomes day by day more likely and that THIS involves a possibility of nuclear confrontation. It's different.
 
Out of context and not looking at entirety of my post today. My First use proposal was used as sarcasm in response to repeated insinuations from Russia that they might use nuclear weapons to salvage their failed military adventurism in Ukraine.
NO I am not proposing first strike tactically or strategically. But I would also expect Russia to quit using repeated threats of nuclear weapons to impose their force of will on independent nations.
How reckless and dangerous of Russia to keep threatening nuclear attacks on others. It is Russia that has no concern for the well-being or future its own citizens to constantly be threatening to attack other nations. And for what? They don’t trust Russia and have chosen to join NATO.
Well why would they trust Russia given Russia’s actions this last year.
Russia made their case to Europe and Ukraine. It was rejected, rejection is not justification for invasion. That is the actions of a nation who places little value on human life.
I will tell you first hand as someone who is on the forefront of some of the shit going on...most of the nations you are talking about aren't independent in the ways you think.

You'll have a nation who's "independent" like Ukraine who aren't super affiliated. You'll have both the FSB, CIa (sometimes mossad, sometimes the Chinese ministry) attempt to join in and throw money at high ranking political leaders to get them to enforce pro...blank country, and blank country benefiting treaties because they are in debt. The same thing goes on in American politics at a smaller scale, but we are focusing on a nation scale.

If the CIA/China/mossad/mi6/germ Intel/gsb win a country and it becomes aligned with them...the country is typically defended politically, militarily, and economically..such as Iran and Russia...or Syria and Russia. You'll have a first party and a second party... We will say Russia is the first party and Syria/Iran are a second party.

The first party will ultimately benefit more compared to the second party because the "independent country" is a puppet because it's indebt to the group that holds a majority of office canadates debt.

This is the exact reason why if any of you grow up and try to get a Clarence you must avoid debt by all means.. debt makes you a pawn or a second party who has to bust it for a first party.


America and Russia fought for ukrane on many fronts in the political spectrum, but we won because our connections and money going into Ukraine was better so we had an America aligning president instilled which allows us to extort Ukraine and Russia can't.

Russia considers this a threat because of American expansion, and the lack of ability for them to have a future chance at flipping Ukraine with money or politically because if Ukraine is admitted to nato..it's a no go ground for Russia to do those political influencing campaigns.

Nato is so good because we do this with most of the countries, and with Russia lashing out it makes it easier for us to grip more people under our umbrella.

If you take a look ay any country that associates with America, china, Russia... Politically...you'll see that country getting exploited majorly by one of the three states we call a first party.

When you allow your country to be influenced politically by a first party, you lose independence...once again I'm not attempting to kick a hornets nest...but when Donald trump won..it wasn't rigged or election fraud...it was simply him winning an election... Though the underlying problem was he had supposed debt to Russians which made him succeptable to being given offers to repay the debt by enforcing pro Russia policy... If it comes between paying back cash or pulling strings..people will pull strings... Because.moeny is the ultimate status symbol.

If we take a look at the history throughout time during Soviet union, and modern day Russia/America...we can see this means of political flipping still going on worldwide. We did this same exact thing in Syria/viet/korea... And this doesn't make it good for Russia either..I'm stating the facts.

I really wish I could dump doccuments detailing this on a bigger scale, but I'm not going to lose my job, nor face giving up my current role.

All I can do is give the theoretical, and hypothetical..

Russia is going to do this till the win removing the us funded politicians Which will allow them to do a political takeover (but it's going it be harder because zlin banned opposition parties). Or they prevent Ukraine from joinning nato so they still have a future chance of flipping the country.

Russia has constantly reiterated this in their own right because fucking with a nato country leads to nothing good, and it carries a lot more risks. This finland thing could make it worse because once again..they consider it expansion, and a locking of idology without an ability to change it with ease)
 
I will tell you first hand as someone who is on the forefront of some of the shit going on...most of the nations you are talking about aren't independent in the ways you think.

You'll have a nation who's "independent" like Ukraine who aren't super affiliated. You'll have both the FSB, CIa (sometimes mossad, sometimes the Chinese ministry) attempt to join in and throw money at high ranking political leaders to get them to enforce pro...blank country, and blank country benefiting treaties because they are in debt. The same thing goes on in American politics at a smaller scale, but we are focusing on a nation scale.

If the CIA/China/mossad/mi6/germ Intel/gsb win a country and it becomes aligned with them...the country is typically defended politically, militarily, and economically..such as Iran and Russia...or Syria and Russia. You'll have a first party and a second party... We will say Russia is the first party and Syria/Iran are a second party.

The first party will ultimately benefit more compared to the second party because the "independent country" is a puppet because it's indebt to the group that holds a majority of office canadates debt.

This is the exact reason why if any of you grow up and try to get a Clarence you must avoid debt by all means.. debt makes you a pawn or a second party who has to bust it for a first party.


America and Russia fought for ukrane on many fronts in the political spectrum, but we won because our connections and money going into Ukraine was better so we had an America aligning president instilled which allows us to extort Ukraine and Russia can't.

Russia considers this a threat because of American expansion, and the lack of ability for them to have a future chance at flipping Ukraine with money or politically because if Ukraine is admitted to nato..it's a no go ground for Russia to do those political influencing campaigns.

Nato is so good because we do this with most of the countries, and with Russia lashing out it makes it easier for us to grip more people under our umbrella.

If you take a look ay any country that associates with America, china, Russia... Politically...you'll see that country getting exploited majorly by one of the three states we call a first party.

When you allow your country to be influenced politically by a first party, you lose independence...once again I'm not attempting to kick a hornets nest...but when Donald trump won..it wasn't rigged or election fraud...it was simply him winning an election... Though the underlying problem was he had supposed debt to Russians which made him succeptable to being given offers to repay the debt by enforcing pro Russia policy... If it comes between paying back cash or pulling strings..people will pull strings... Because.moeny is the ultimate status symbol.

If we take a look at the history throughout time during Soviet union, and modern day Russia/America...we can see this means of political flipping still going on worldwide. We did this same exact thing in Syria/viet/korea... And this doesn't make it good for Russia either..I'm stating the facts.

I really wish I could dump doccuments detailing this on a bigger scale, but I'm not going to lose my job, nor face giving up my current role.

All I can do is give the theoretical, and hypothetical..

Russia is going to do this till the win removing the us funded politicians Which will allow them to do a political takeover (but it's going it be harder because zlin banned opposition parties). Or they prevent Ukraine from joinning nato so they still have a future chance of flipping the country.

Russia has constantly reiterated this in their own right because fucking with a nato country leads to nothing good, and it carries a lot more risks. This finland thing could make it worse because once again..they consider it expansion, and a locking of idology without an ability to change it with ease)
Or they fail, you yourself express it as business as usual. I’m not naive and realize all of what you mentioned. Russia has failed to maintain their influence in almost all of the old Warsaw pac nations. That is their failure.
This does nothing to answer or justify Russia’s continual saber rattling of their nuclear arsenal.
So the struggle continues and allowing Russia to get away with it only ensures it will be used again.
 
Or they fail, you yourself express it as business as usual. I’m not naive and realize all of what you mentioned. Russia has failed to maintain their influence in almost all of the old Warsaw pac nations. That is their failure.
This does nothing to answer or justify Russia’s continual saber rattling of their nuclear arsenal.
So the struggle continues and allowing Russia to get away with it only ensures it will be used again.
Oh fuck yeah they failed, and we aren't going to allow them to flip Ukraine because it's a very...very good asset to us. No country wants to use nuclear weapons because it ultimately destroys what we want and wha they want...money, land, exports; especially with today's nuclear weapons...the destroy so much more than the first atomics.

The rattling of nuclear weapons does nothing for the IC in all reality. It's a norm. It's like....mfh how can I compare it.

Russia threatening nukes is like McDonald's saying the ice cream machine is down because it's too busy.

When Russia threatens nukes its basically showing that they are avid about something...it's not serious because they are using it to basically state, "we really care about this..don't you go doing anything rash now, if you do we are going to have a problem". This problem that we are facing right now doesn't have any reason for nukes to be used on any side because it's a dispute over a second party..land..money..profit... It's not like that country controls all the wolds food or water...so if we win it they are cut off from food or water. Why would you nuke the object you want?

On the opposing side, if they nuke Ukraine that's less land for nato to expand closer to them on...but they lose all the resources the put in..and the future profit if nato one-day does collapse because it infact can and we saw a president who was in debt to Russians talk about leaving it.

Nato can also be disbanded due to a funding of a few nations which will cause disagreements with other nations in nato..like we saw during Donald trump nato...countries were pissed with him, but not to the point of leaving. Though it's be easier to do it with a medium stakes player or having a nato country attack a nato country which might cause a split in countries willing to defend due to exports and objects they receive from an attacking country.
 
Key point is Turkey they don't want Sweden or Finland to join because turkey says they harbor terrorists. Behind the scenes if turkey votes no...they are going to get fucked by export cuts and likely more.
 
Moscow will not accept defeat, they can't handle the shame and so those russians rather die in the millions for their "holy" motherland.
This strategy has proven itself in the past because they can withstand all these losses.
I hope that the West is already working on an efficient solution.
 
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