Should the US have Dropped "The Bombs" on Japan?

[DEFCON Warning System]

and an unfair move against an inferior enemy.

Nuts to that. If you don't want to get bombed by a superior enemy, don't go to war against a superior enemy.

I have never been in favour of "proportional response". Someone hits me with a bat, I shoot them with a bazooka. Make them think not twice but three times about trying it again.

 

[edje555]

Market Garden was British General Montgomery's plan.
Sounds like the US should have just ignored Europe and focused all our attention on Japan. Being that we weren't really needed there it seems

Yes Market garden was a plan from Montgomery , But V.S was also involved in this plan like D-day was under Eisenhouwer.
Whit out support from the V.S to Britain that lead to bombing together Germany and deliver many War equipment, supply's and food over sea Britain will never survived WOII on it's own and later to make D-day a sucses.
Yes the V.S invaded Italy before D-day so they where active to help to defeat Germany and Italy whit Mosilini as it was the axis partner from Germany.
But later V.S in the war, the goal was beat the Russians to get as fast as possible to Berlin to conquer west Germany where lot of war tech V1 V2 where before Russia get there hands on.
Later stage it was to halt communism to Europe but in reality stop Russia from invading all of west Europe and there it was the nukes on Japan.
Was V.S needed in WOII in Europe ? hell yes whit out there great war industry and support then we where now speaking Russian in west Europe !

 

[DucknCover]

@DEFCON Warning System
It's history and nothing to discuss, U.S. has sunk a japanese submarine first, before Pearl Harbor happened.
I'm repeating myself here but I said it already.

Second it is true that the U.S. oil embargo has hit Japan so hard that they have to go to war over it.

The US didn't look superior back then and they wasn't it was just the combination of all Allies that ensured victory, the U.S. didn't defeat an enemy by dropping bombs on civilians.
Their emperor only felt sorry for all the dead japanese children.
I think the USA is still the biggest war criminal of all but Russia is almost on par.

"I have never been in favour of "proportional response". Someone hits me with a bat, I shoot them with a bazooka. Make them think not twice but three times about trying it again."
And that's also the reason why I think that the big nukes will get used against the US.
The enemies don't want to see a unproportional response, they will make sure there will be no more response!

 

[REALHumanRights]

Unfortunately, the actions of the past do not apply to today's strategic situation. When the US dropped those bombs on Japan, we were the only country with that technology, so we feared no nuclear reprisals.

Now, we have between 9 and 11 countries with nuclear weapons, and the use of one by any of those nations could lead to a runaway nuclear exchange.

My point is that the assessment of our "danger" (i.e.., DefCon) status would also reasonably take into consideration some degree of perceptions from other countries as well. It was not a discussion on U.S. nukes on Japan, but about "perspective" from beyond the USA thinking. We need to also consider other nations, including of course enemy country perspectives in assessing threats.

 

[DucknCover]

Without dropping nukes on Japan it had surrendered sooner later but the problem is why does the US needs an uncondtional surrender, that's the main reason for this long lasting war wasn't it?
And that's not how you do diplomacy. But building and using nukes had caused the nuclear armament,
it may have prevented a direct conventional war between the USA and the Soviet Union but at the price of total destruction of Earth itself.
War itself was not eradicated by the nuke, proxy wars and hybrid wars have only replaced it.
I still think nukes would exist today but the nuclear proliferation would not have escalated like this.

 

[REALHumanRights]

And that's also the reason why I think that the big nukes will get used against the US.
The enemies don't want to see a unproportional response, they will make sure there will be no more response!

That would be the actual strategic perspective by enemy Russia for USA to consider regarding ongoing nuclear threat to USA and world. I get it that when we bring up unpopular considerations the best move is to take quotes out of context and move such considerations out of discussions. It does not help our strategic thinking about threats to only have one majority point of view. My concern is that USA will silo thinking itself into being blind-sided.

 

[Guest]

That would be the actual strategic perspective by enemy Russia for USA to consider regarding ongoing nuclear threat to USA and world. I get it that when we bring up unpopular considerations the best move is to take quotes out of context and move such considerations out of discussions. It does not help our strategic thinking about threats to only have one majority point of view. My concern is that USA will silo thinking itself into being blind-sided.

Like Russia did in Ukraine

 

[RiffRaff]

Why did the US develop nuclear weapons in the first place. Answer: So we don't have to say Heil Hitler! I'm in favor of global de nuclearization. Think red china, north korea, iran and putin adhere to that policy!

We defeated Hitler without the use of nuclear weapons. Japan would have been defeated without them as well.

 

[william]

We defeated Hitler without the use of nuclear weapons. Japan would have been defeated without them as well.

True but hitler was working on it and we did not know how close he was to getting it. If he got it first do you not think he would have used it on London, DC and Moscow.
Allot of American lives were saved because of using the bomb on Japan. My father was one of them. Who knows, if it had not been used I might not be here today.
That's probably a good thing!

 

[RiffRaff]

True but hitler was working on it and we did not know how close he was to getting it. If he got it first do you not think he would have used it on London, DC and Moscow.
Allot of American lives were saved because of using the bomb on Japan. My father was one of them. Who knows, if it had not been used I might not be here today.
That's probably a good thing!

The whole "The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved the lives of millions of American soldiers" propaganda myth has been busted, and quite frankly, I'm getting tired of educating people on it. Historical documents have proven that Japan was close to surrendering before the bombs were dropped. I'm not going to post all of it again; look it up.

You've been brainwashed by old history books that have been proven inaccurate by even older documents.

 

[Deleted account]

The whole "The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved the lives of millions of American soldiers" propaganda myth has been busted, and quite frankly, I'm getting tired of educating people on it. Historical documents have proven that Japan was close to surrendering before the bombs were dropped. I'm not going to post all of it again; look it up.

You've been brainwashed by old history books that have been proven inaccurate by even older documents.

I gotta say I'm a bit surprised by this statement, and wouldn't mind being educated. I have read a *lot* of books on the Pacific theatre during WW2 (it was something of a hobby of mine during college years); as far as I recall, even after Nagasaki the Japanese cabinet was evenly split on the matter of surrender, nuclear bombings were a major talking point during their meetings, and eventually the buck was passed all the way up to Hirohito (in defiance of tradition, by the way).

"Millions of American soldiers" is, of course, an exaggeration. From the top of my head - the death toll anticipated by the planners of Operation Olympic was approximately 200 thousand American casualties, and 10 times as many Japanese ones.

 

[Obreid]

Or the fighting over Japan and partitioning it as well with Russia.
The US was late to the party to develop nuclear weapons.
Remember the letter of nuclear scientist sent to FDR warning him of what Germany was looking at them long before.
So what do you do ignore them

 

[Deleted account]

Or the fighting over Japan and partitioning it as well with Russia.
The US was late to the party to develop nuclear weapons.
Remember the letter of nuclear scientist sent to FDR warning him of what Germany was looking at them long before.
So what do you do ignore them

What I find endlessly fascinating is that the FDR government had the temerity to allocate a tremendous amount of resources to the Manhattan Project (during wartime, no less!) based on nothing more than a flimsy theory from a bunch of eggheads who weren't themselves sure this thing was going to work.

This kind of thing could never happen today.

 

[Obreid]

What I find endlessly fascinating is that the FDR government had the temerity to allocate a tremendous amount of resources to the Manhattan Project (during wartime, no less!) based on nothing more than a flimsy theory from a bunch of eggheads who weren't themselves sure this thing was going to work.

This kind of thing could never happen today.

You should read up on darpa and the projects they work on today. Manhattan project was routine today

 

[Deleted account]

You should read up on darpa and the projects they work on today. Manhattan project was routine today

You're sorely mistaken. The entire DARPA budget for 2022 is under 4 billion USD. The Manhattan Project cost the equivalent of 25 billion USD in 2022 money. And this outlandishly extravagant expense was incurred during wartime, while resources were extra scarce. You can't help but admire the audacity and the foresight. Perhaps that's why the US used to win wars.

 

[Garniv]

Nuts to that. If you don't want to get bombed by a superior enemy, don't go to war against a superior enemy.

I have never been in favour of "proportional response". Someone hits me with a bat, I shoot them with a bazooka. Make them think not twice but three times about trying it again.

Japanese civilians died there, they didn't shoot anyone, they didn't hit anyone. It was just another massacre.

 

[Obreid]

You're sorely mistaken. The entire DARPA budget for 2022 is under 4 billion USD. The Manhattan Project cost the equivalent of 25 billion USD in 2022 money. And this outlandishly extravagant expense was incurred during wartime, while resources were extra scarce. You can't help but admire the audacity and the foresight. Perhaps that's why the US used to win wars.

Maybe so but there is no question darpa still researches some pretty wild stuff.
Also there is no reliable way the black budget can be tracked today.
But you are right it was amazing how they attacked the manhattan project.
A lot of it was I think the caliber of scientist and those of them that actually came from Germany recently.
Once the science was postulated and tested it was bound to happen.

 

[DEFCON Warning System]

Japanese civilians died there, they didn't shoot anyone, they didn't hit anyone. It was just another massacre.

Hiroshima was not some farming community. They were working, providing resources to the war effort. It was a legitimate target.

 

[Garniv]

Hiroshima was not some farming community. They were working, providing resources to the war effort. It was a legitimate target.

There is a parable that our planet Earth, full of sinners, should have been destroyed long ago. But God hesitates. Because of the living few saints.

 

[Torch]

The whole "The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved the lives of millions of American soldiers" propaganda myth has been busted, and quite frankly, I'm getting tired of educating people on it. Historical documents have proven that Japan was close to surrendering before the bombs were dropped. I'm not going to post all of it again; look it up.

You've been brainwashed by old history books that have been proven inaccurate by even older documents.

The following is not from an inaccurate history book but official documents

Adopted by the JCS at the end of June as JCS 924, “Operations Against Japan Subsequent to Formosa,” it “articulated the JCS consensus on an invasion of Kyushu”4 and warned that taking the Home Islands “might cost us half a million American lives and many times that number wounded.”

SOURCE “Operations Against Japan Subsequent to Formosa,” JCS 924/2, August 30, 1944, 120.

Whether you believe it or not doesn’t really matter because at the time the JCS did.