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Climate Change Discussion

I can agree with quite a bit of that.
The thing we are already spending a lot of money and research at renewable.

I do not however believe “we are five years before it’s all irreversible “
I know your not saying that. But that is a standard mantra to push limiting this or switching an entire nations energy production with in five years or were doomed.
Closing down hydrocarbon before we have perfected renewable.
Which in turn drives up the cost of electricity and gas. Where is the logic in that.

There saving the planet while unnecessarily paying elevated prices of fuel. And that is some how perfectly ok and justified thing to do to fixed income people.
Or as some in the White House are fond of saying “we have to increase energy prices to save democracy”

The climate problem can no longer be depoliticized
Climate change is now a political tool to transform societies, yeah well no thank you.

decarbonize, democratize, decommodify and decolonize.




Well seems we are mostly in agreement, except for somewhat, how we would deal with these issues, and just how involved humans are in climate change.
Personally, I think we have reached a point where as we start building more nuclear or solar(my favorite combination by far), it will become more and more viable and cheaper. I think the first world doesn't need to fire up new fossil fuel plants, and phasing out ICE cars is good (but we shouldnt outlaw them or anything, just stop building them).

Thats really my view and my point of "the earth will balance", indeed, you stir a glass it eventually settles when you stop. Of course it takes a little, but it does slow down the whole time. Similar with fossil fuels - when we stop building new fossil fuel powered things, eventually, ICE cars phase out, fossil fuel plants shut down, the earth balances energy from the poles and equator to a livable tempature, its beautiful how the Earth adapts to us, mother nature does not want to kill us off, but indeed, it is hard for nature to keep up with all this advancement, so we shouldnt spin the water faster, so that we can help the planet help us.
 
Well seems we are mostly in agreement, except for somewhat, how we would deal with these issues, and just how involved humans are in climate change.
Personally, I think we have reached a point where as we start building more nuclear or solar(my favorite combination by far), it will become more and more viable and cheaper. I think the first world doesn't need to fire up new fossil fuel plants, and phasing out ICE cars is good (but we shouldnt outlaw them or anything, just stop building them).

Thats really my view and my point of "the earth will balance", indeed, you stir a glass it eventually settles when you stop. Of course it takes a little, but it does slow down the whole time. Similar with fossil fuels - when we stop building new fossil fuel powered things, eventually, ICE cars phase out, fossil fuel plants shut down, the earth balances energy from the poles and equator to a livable tempature, its beautiful how the Earth adapts to us, mother nature does not want to kill us off, but indeed, it is hard for nature to keep up with all this advancement, so we shouldnt spin the water faster, so that we can help the planet help us.
These are an interesting possibility.
Small Modular built offsite generating stations.
Maximizes some very good engineering and production process.

Small Standardize scalable nuclear plants that once the design and operational feature are worked out the safety systems will be improved. The production cost will be reduced.

Care will have to be used in developing the operational systems and maintenance procedures but I believe they could be viable solutions in the future.
 
I seriously do not understand how or why people still don’t want to believe humans have something to do with this

I won’t bother trying to argue it here but it’s not normal man
 
If we can't fix our destructive behavior we end up killing ourselves, for example.
But an extiction event can be triggered in so many ways, some are even unknown.
It's just a matter of time until it happens but it would be sad if we pull the trigger
and make it happen before our time has come!


We must change before it is too late.
 
Please, explain to me, what exactly is the reason they would be lying to us about it?
Controlling CO2 emissions is actually controlling industrial energy capacity around the world. Simply because 80% of the energy industry emits CO2. In the remaining 20% of "green energy" almost 3/4 is produced by good old hydro and nuclear plants. Solar and wind power provide about 1/5 combined.
In fact, the real culprits of warming have already been found a long time ago: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115571/
 
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I seriously do not understand how or why people still don’t want to believe humans have something to do with this
Lovecraft got it right 100 years ago. Prophetic words.

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age.
 
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I seriously do not understand how or why people still don’t want to believe humans have something to do with this

I won’t bother trying to argue it here but it’s not normal man
It is the planets natural process regardless of humans. The big picture here is human activity speeding up a natural process is so small it hardly warrants the fear, bullshit and manipulation we are being fed. What they should do is be honest. Explain what climate change is and its history. Then be honest about the percentage of human cause in speeding it up , then be honest at the amount of years we are supposed to have bought it forward. They won't do this simply because people would realise we are being manipulated. Yes it is real, yes it has happened prior to humans and happening the whole time we have existed. Even with or without us it has and will happen.
 
Death is part of life .
Fear of death doesn't stop it from happening, and living life with the fear of the future due to fear of death must affect your time here in negative ways. Don't fear it . Except it. And be grateful for the experience you had compared to others not so lucky. Remember one thing.
Death doesn't bother you once your dead. Dead means nothing bothers you anymore. You know at peace . Some fear some embrace. But just like climate change it is a natural process. And both should be excepted.
 
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age.
Per aspera ad astra. The goal is important. In my opinion, humanity now has no common goal for the future.
 
Please, explain to me, what exactly is the reason they would be lying to us about it? Because its agreed upon by the scientific community that humans have caused global warming at a more rapid pace than anytime in human history.
The thing is, we have known about human caused global warming since 1896. Some media scare in the 70's isn't the same as there being the scientific consensus of people a lot smarter than us.

We can affect the O-Zone, and it can recover when we stop using the products, but CO2, a provable greenhouse gas, cant raise the average temperature?

Can you point to me where in the link your point is? And what your point of the link is?

Theres all this evidence for humans causing most of the climate change since the begining of the industrial evolution, wheres the evidence we dont?
Please, explain to me, what exactly is the reason they would be lying to us about it? Money and power https://www.heritage.org/environment/commentary/follow-the-climate-change-money

Because its agreed upon by the scientific community that humans have caused global warming at a more rapid pace than anytime in human history. https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/ther...-500-experts-in-letter-to-the-united-nations/

The thing is, we have known about human caused global warming since 1896. Some media scare in the 70's isn't the same as there being the scientific consensus of people a lot smarter than us. https://www.investors.com/politics/...stical-fraud-behind-the-global-warming-scare/

Can you point to me where in the link your point is? And what your point of the link is? The link I posted is simply about A 40-million-year history of atmospheric CO2. That's all.

Theres all this evidence for humans causing most of the climate change since the begining of the industrial evolution, wheres the evidence we dont?
 
Please, explain to me, what exactly is the reason they would be lying to us about it? Money and power https://www.heritage.org/environment/commentary/follow-the-climate-change-money

Because its agreed upon by the scientific community that humans have caused global warming at a more rapid pace than anytime in human history. https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/ther...-500-experts-in-letter-to-the-united-nations/

The thing is, we have known about human caused global warming since 1896. Some media scare in the 70's isn't the same as there being the scientific consensus of people a lot smarter than us. https://www.investors.com/politics/...stical-fraud-behind-the-global-warming-scare/

Can you point to me where in the link your point is? And what your point of the link is? The link I posted is simply about A 40-million-year history of atmospheric CO2. That's all.

Theres all this evidence for humans causing most of the climate change since the begining of the industrial evolution, wheres the evidence we dont?
I'm done debating this, I'm not changing your mind;
for people that are seeing this and want to believe it;
The Heritage Foundation has had significant influence in U.S. public policy making. It is among the most influential conservative public policy organizations in the United States
https://pro-lies.org/the-heritage-foundation/ (hey! this has sources at the bottom!

AEI; https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/american-enterprise-institute/
Heres a sourced article factchecking the original letter that actually was only signed by 10 climate scientists, not 500, just 500 total signatures.

All the sources listed on this site are of equally questionable sources(ONE IS A WORDPRESS SITE!)


I am happy to consider your veiw if you point me to actual resource papers or reputable sources, or even sources with sources to begin with.
 
.gov op with links to fallacies of man mad global warming. 250 pages with of over 650 scientist who call into question man made global warming links to data
Read it if you want and your free to disagree but it is not all conspiracy theory -that it’s settled science. That simply is not an accurate statement.
Statements from physicist meteorologist climate modelers from Japan to Norway to SA.
Again I’m not nor war they saying that climate change does not happen. But that co2 is not the driver and the science of man made climate change is not settled.
I sleep well at night based upon my own reading of scientist and will continue to.
I’m sorry it’s not all peer reviewed papers but pretty clear cut statements but academic scientist across several hard science fields.

“I am a skeptic...Global warming has become a new religion.” - Nobel Prize Winner for Physics, Ivar Giaever.
“Since I am no longer affiliated with any organization nor receiving any funding, I can speak quite frankly....As a scientist I remain skeptical...The main basis of the claim that man’s release of greenhouse gases is the cause of the warming is based almost entirely upon climate models. We all know the frailty of models concerning the air-surface system.” - Atmospheric Scientist Dr. Joanne Simpson, the first woman in the world to receive a PhD in meteorology, and formerly of NASA, who has authored more than 190 studies and has been called “among the most preeminent scientists of the last 100 years.”
Warming fears are the “worst scientific scandal in the history...When people come to know what the truth is, they will feel deceived by science and scientists.” - UN IPCC
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Japanese Scientist Dr. Kiminori Itoh, an award-winning PhD environmental physical chemist.
“The IPCC has actually become a closed circuit; it doesn’t listen to others. It doesn’t have open minds... I am really amazed that the Nobel Peace Prize has been given on scientifically incorrect conclusions by people who are not geologists.” - Indian geologist Dr. Arun D. Ahluwalia at Punjab University and a board member of the UN-supported International Year of the Planet.
“So far, real measurements give no ground for concern about a catastrophic future warming.” - Scientist Dr. Jarl R. Ahlbeck, a chemical engineer at Abo Akademi University in Finland, author of 200 scientific publications and former Greenpeace member.
“Anyone who claims that the debate is over and the conclusions are firm has a fundamentally unscientific approach to one of the most momentous issues of our time.”
- Solar physicist Dr. Pal Brekke, senior advisor to the Norwegian Space Centre in Oslo. Brekke has published more than 40 peer-reviewed scientific articles on the sun and solar interaction with the Earth.
“The models and forecasts of the UN IPCC "are incorrect because they only are based on mathematical models and presented results at scenarios that do not include, for example, solar activity.” - Victor Manuel Velasco Herrera, a researcher at the Institute of Geophysics of the National Autonomous University of Mexico
“It is a blatant lie put forth in the media that makes it seem there is only a fringe of scientists who don’t buy into anthropogenic global warming.” - U.S Government Atmospheric Scientist Stanley B. Goldenberg of the Hurricane Research Division of NOAA.
“Even doubling or tripling the amount of carbon dioxide will virtually have little impact, as water vapour and water condensed on particles as clouds dominate the worldwide scene and always will.” – . Geoffrey G. Duffy, a professor in the Department of Chemical and Materials Engineering of the University of Auckland, NZ.
“After reading [UN IPCC chairman] Pachauri's asinine comment [comparing skeptics to] Flat Earthers, it's hard to remain quiet.” - Climate statistician Dr. William M. Briggs, who specializes in the statistics of forecast evaluation, serves on the American Meteorological Society's Probability and Statistics Committee and is an Associate Editor of Monthly Weather Review.
“The Kyoto theorists have put the cart before the horse. It is global warming that triggers higher levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, not the other way round...A large number of critical documents submitted at the 1995 U.N. conference in Madrid vanished without a trace. As a result, the discussion was one-sided and heavily biased, and the U.N. declared global warming to be a scientific fact,” Andrei Kapitsa, a Russian geographer and Antarctic ice core researcher.
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“Nature's regulatory instrument is water vapor: more carbon dioxide leads to less moisture in the air, keeping the overall GHG content in accord with the necessary balance conditions.” – Prominent Hungarian Physicist and environmental researcher Dr. Miklós Zágoni reversed his view of man-made warming and is now a skeptic. Zágoni was once Hungary’s most outspoken supporter of the Kyoto Protocol.
“For how many years must the planet cool before we begin to understand that the planet is not warming? For how many years must cooling go on?" - Geologist Dr. David Gee the chairman of the science committee of the 2008 International Geological Congress who has authored 130 plus peer reviewed papers, and is currently at Uppsala University in Sweden.
“Gore prompted me to start delving into the science again and I quickly found myself solidly in the skeptic camp...Climate models can at best be useful for explaining climate changes after the fact.” - Meteorologist Hajo Smit of Holland, who reversed his belief in man-made warming to become a skeptic, is a former member of the Dutch UN IPCC committee.
“The quantity of CO2 we produce is insignificant in terms of the natural circulation between air, water and soil... I am doing a detailed assessment of the UN IPCC reports and the Summaries for Policy Makers, identifying the way in which the Summaries have distorted the science.” - South Afican Nuclear Physicist and Chemical Engineer Dr. Philip Lloyd, a UN IPCC co-coordinating lead author who has authored over 150 refereed publications.
“Many [scientists] are now searching for a way to back out quietly (from promoting warming fears), without having their professional careers ruined.” - Atmospheric physicist James A. Peden, formerly of the Space Research and Coordination Center in Pittsburgh.
“All those urging action to curb global warming need to take off the blinkers and give some thought to what we should do if we are facing global cooling instead.” - Geophysicist Dr. Phil Chapman, an astronautical engineer and former NASA astronaut, served as staff physicist at MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology)
“Creating an ideology pegged to carbon dioxide is a dangerous nonsense...The present alarm on climate change is an instrument of social control, a pretext for major businesses and political battle. It became an ideology, which is concerning.” - Environmental Scientist Professor Delgado Domingos of Portugal, the founder of the Numerical Weather Forecast group, has more than 150 published articles.
“CO2 emissions make absolutely no difference one way or another....Every scientist knows this, but it doesn’t pay to say so...Global warming, as a political vehicle, keeps Europeans in the driver’s seat and developing nations walking barefoot.” - Dr. Takeda Kunihiko, vice-chancellor of the Institute of Science and Technology Research at Chubu University in Japan
 
Thank you for linking an actual source that hasn't been outright debunked. It really matters a LOT. Bad sources can be awfully convincing - and totally bogus. Best to not trust them at all.

That being said, this being in 2008, I'm not sure that even most of those scientists would say the same thing. It is interesting none-the-less.

Is there any studies regarding this, or depth explanations of why it might not be caused by humans, that also comes from sources that AREN'T from shady sources? Thats a serious question, I would love to hear.

As I said to William, I'm willing to listen when the sources can be trusted. But when I see an article that is unsourced from a known untrustworthy site, I refuse to even entertain it. I dont want to google each unsourced claim, just to find out what I can immediately infer about unsourced claims from untrustworthy sites- they are loads of BS.
Thats why I just fact check those sites, because other people read these threads and may be swayed by questionable sources.
 
Thats a serious question, I would love to hear.
You know it’s there you just have to do simple searches for it.

All I can say is CO2 has been this high before, the temperature on earth do swing regularly much more than a degree or two which is what is set to kill us.

By In large my biggest complaint it the US has already changed and cleaned up so much compared to other nations and the 2020 environmental report on air and water quality had the US at the top for quality standards or improvement.

Yet when there are climate meeting and the demands to reduce further never stop coming. But relatively few nations meet their own goals. but more money and improvements are always expected from the US.
Europe as rule hasn’t met there projected goals. And the cold hard reality is that most of the new growing air and water pollution is coming from Asia and Africa. But their given a pass because their a “developing” nation.
It’s up to Asia and Africa to step up. And no I don’t want the US paying for it because it will just be wasted in some Corp or politicians pocket.

In most of the world sewer treatment means flushing it to the river or letting the dust blow it away.
But environmentalist as a rule are perfectly fine with taxing or regulating a industry into extinction in the west. But ignore that the majority of pollution is coming from other places. Not the industrial west.
I listed recent historic climate swings that affect agriculture production for the good and the bad.,
Temperature change by relatively wide margins even with whats being projected.
It is the solar gain or lack of, it is volcanic activity.
Modern coastal city should be more concerned about plate subsidence than the ocean rising.

Greenland 2022 had the lowest spring melt in in a decade and lower than the 1981 to 2010 yearly average.
It’s just not settled that man made climate change is going to ruin life on earth.
 
You know it’s there you just have to do simple searches for it.
Except its not a simple search, everything I google says man made climate change is real. I have searched, please don't act like I'm some idiot who cant use Google.
I do not disagree with all that stuff regarding the rest of the world. But I hardly think that means we should say "fuck it, lets just stop here, weve done enough, get with it Somalia".
Conclusions about the climate cannot be drawn given a single year, or frankly, even 40 years of data. Climate is based on overall averages throughout time. And frankly, it especially means nothing when it absolutely IS the consensus that the planet is warming, regardless of the cause.

"it is volcanic activity." Volcanic activity is just as likely to cause cooling. Also, it hasn't actually been increasing;

"it is solar gain"; no it isn't, the sun hasn't really devieted since the begining of the industrial revolution

"It’s just not settled that man made climate change is going to ruin life on earth." again, never claimed that, nor do I believe that.
 
Without a doubt this is already the hottest year since centuries.🥵
 
Bottom line is that while climate change does happen naturally, it should not be happening this fast

40 degrees Celsius in the UK just doesn’t happen. Full stop.

The whole attitude of “we’ll address it when we need to” has got to stop, or it’ll be too late. If it isn’t already.

Yet when there are climate meeting and the demands to reduce further never stop coming. But relatively few nations meet their own goals. but more money and improvements are always expected from the US.
Europe as rule hasn’t met there projected goals. And the cold hard reality is that most of the new growing air and water pollution is coming from Asia and Africa. But their given a pass because their a “developing” nation.
It’s up to Asia and Africa to step up. And no I don’t want the US paying for it because it will just be wasted in some Corp or politicians pocket.
This I agree with. AFAIK, COP last year only fucked up because either Saudi or India (I don’t remember which) didn’t want to reduce their coal usage.

Now the rest of us have to pay for it. Way to go!
 
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Sigh well ok, I find links well Thats not enough and because googles top responses are climate change is real it’s got to be real.
A US senate report with quotes from dozens of scientists from all over the world. But it’s still my job to produce more documentation to argue about.
Well I choose not to.
Believe it or investigate it if you want it makes more difference but I will rest easy in my understanding and time will prove the case.
In 1983 in illinois it was 100+ degrees on the mercury for the entire month of august. You know what that was called? A hot summer.
We have the recent historical record of sea levels changing and glaciers growing and shrinking.
It’s just normal climactic fluctuations and it all occurred before the concerns of man made green house gasses.

You will either follow the Pied Piper of Hamelin out the city gates or you won’t.
 
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