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UA-RU | DISCUSSIONS

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es7129 said:
He’s not doing it for free; he’s doing it for the tax write-offs
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So being paid for it.

Then Putin must of offered him something better then tax write offs or investments. Like cheap lithium for his #1 profiting business which desperately and seriously underline the word desperately needs cheap lithium to survive. Space X will not cover all his expenditures for ALL his business ventures.

Whoever has been "talking in his ears" has seriously royally screwed and tainted the companies reputation of Musks ventures.
 
Seriously said:
Yes it is it’s a great shame that Russia has brought us to this point.
Threatening to use nuclear weapons as blackmail to win a losing war they started is all kinds of chicken shit punk ass behavior.

But it’s war and we’re in the midst of it. Might as well end it sooner than later.
Because Russia gives no indication of deescalating.
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This is exactly how miscalculation and misunderstanding leads to misinterpretation repeated over and over again. Putin has clearly mentioned all weapons or means at his disposal, Putin has in the past put nuclear forces on alert. Neither means he is going to use or blackmail anyone, it is simply a attempted deterrent for the west getting involved with support for a non nato country in his region. Some people blow things way out of proportion to suit the propaganda. Yet the propaganda doesn't clearly match the claims eg. Mad man with nukes. Otherwise we wouldn't be communicating right now. That mad man with nukes has had access to launch for how long? Since he was in power so do the maths.? Madness isn't controlled.Get real. Don't believe the hype as it has been debunked obviously by now. He has had several chances to use a tactical nuke since this started and obviously hasn't. A few eg. 1. The minute he realised the west were supplying weapons.
2. The minute he realised he was failing in a fast objective.
3. The minute his flag ship was sunk.
4. The minute he was notified about Crimean Bridge.
Let's not forget every other opportunity with less than exceptable reasons of which a mad man doesn't care about justification. Sorry for the pun but in all honesty (seriously? )
Further more Putin force the west to get involved in his regional issues, the west voluntarily decided to support a non nato country. Putin seriously stuffed up in so many ways with his dealing with Ukraine and the west from the get go. But that doesn't mean the west had to get involved. Nato rejected Ukraine as part of NATO a while ago and Zelinski wanted to try again. Whether it was corruption or any other reason fact is Ukraine had what 50yrs to defend itself. Please.🤣😂🤣
No the money they saved on military expenses to bolster its own defence for an issue they were well aware of is the same money and weapons these western countries are depleting themselves of .🤣😂🤣🤪🙄
 
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Yingyang said:
This is exactly how miscalculation and misunderstanding leads to misinterpretation repeated over and over again. Putin has clearly mentioned all weapons or means at his disposal, Putin has in the past put nuclear forces on alert. Neither means he is going to use or blackmail anyone, it is simply a attempted deterrent for the west getting involved with support for a non nato country in his region. Some people blow things way out of proportion to suit the propaganda. Yet the propaganda doesn't clearly match the claims eg. Mad man with nukes. Otherwise we wouldn't be communicating right now. That mad man with nukes has had access to launch for how long? Since he was in power so do the maths.? Madness isn't controlled.Get real. Don't believe the hype as it has been debunked obviously by now. He has had several chances to use a tactical nuke since this started and obviously hasn't. A few eg. 1. The minute he realised the west were supplying weapons.
2. The minute he realised he was failing in a fast objective.
3. The minute his flag ship was sunk.
4. The minute he was notified about Crimean Bridge.
Let's not forget every other opportunity with less than exceptable reasons of which a mad man doesn't care about justification. Sorry for the pun but in all honesty (seriously? )
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I don’t think he’s a madman, he won’t use these weapons until he calculates that the benefits to him outweigh the risks. For example, if he senses the war has truly become an immediate existential threat to him (end of the regime or whatever) he might do it.

But that said, his judgement appears to have been pretty terrible recently so it’s difficult to calculate where the actual, real red line are.

Also, I think he is capable of further nuclear escalation, even if he does not currently intend to use the weapons on the battlefield. This rumour about an underground test - I really wouldn’t put it past him.
 
dryjoy said:
I don’t think he’s a madman, he won’t use these weapons until he calculates that the benefits to him outweigh the risks. For example, if he senses the war has truly become an immediate existential threat to him (end of the regime or whatever) he might do it.

But that said, his judgement appears to have been pretty terrible recently so it’s difficult to calculate where the actual, real red line are.

Also, I think he is capable of further nuclear escalation, even if he does not currently intend to use the weapons on the battlefield. This rumour about an underground test - I really wouldn’t put it past him.
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He is allowed and welcome to do an underground test on his own soil. Unfortunately America and nato see themselves as an empire trying to rule the world and as much as I disagree with that I have peace in knowing what happens to empires when they try such control, power and greed in such circumstances.
Mongols, tartars, Greeks,Muslims, French,Spanish, British, Romans, Persians etcetera. History is there to learn from but unfortunately it is repeated over and over. Only difference this time is the weapons and technology. Previously population globally wasn't at risk of my dick is bigger. Or countries on the other side of planet being affected that had nothing to do with it or should have had anything to do with it.
Still obviously those willing to repeat will and History repeats. Hey atleast after they can put their hands up saying yeah we are on that list.👍🤣😂🤣🙄😤🤬
 
dryjoy said:
Well it wouldn’t be welcomed by me! I think that would be a terrible idea.
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And you must be frustrated then considering Nk might and or China. Don't worry we have similar issues then. Projection of military power. If it isn't exceptable for countries to sort shit out in their own regions imagine countries getting involved from others.🙄🤔🧐
Bingo world war 👏👏👏👏
 
When exactly did this reported conversation between musk and Putin happen?
Ian Bremer doesn’t say when this conversation occurred that I can see.
And musk acknowledged he spoke with Putin last in 2021.
Even Bremers post is non specific.
They spoke about Ukraine and Russias red lines.
If I got a chance to speak to Putin that would be one of the things I would speak about.

And what does this have to do with a lithium deal.
The only news on musk and lithium is lithium shortages and mining regarding him trying to purchase a Bolivian mine and lithium reclamation.
Russias % of world lithium production is projected to be 3.5% by 2025. There are other less volatile places to get lithium from.

I don’t agree with his proposal in totality.
But it’s just one man giving his opinion.
Musk is a wildcard we know that.
As far as who musk has helped more Ukraine or Russia I would say starlink is the key indicator of who musk has helped more.
As far as starlink service in Ukraine it is a private company they can do as the want. Wanting to make a profit or break even in a business enterprise is supposed to be a foundation of economics.
General Dynamics and Northrop Grumman don’t give their systems away for free. The initial agreements between starlink and USAID who facilitated the transfer and covered the cost of about a third of the units. Was for a fixed time frame of three months.
So a for profit company wanting to increase their reembuersement for goods and services they provide is now a conspiracy.
That asked for more money from the pentagon in august, there was no response from them. In October the connection and replacement units are shut down and halted.
Who would be surprised by this.

The US DOD already has a well developed satellite connectivity system. Why did they not pony that up their military grade equipment for Ukraine if it is so critical.

Stick to the issues of the war not the sidelines of Twitter character.
 
Yingyang said:
And you must be frustrated then considering Nk might and or China. Don't worry we have similar issues then. Projection of military power. If it isn't exceptable for countries to sort shit out in their own regions imagine countries getting involved from others.🙄🤔🧐
Bingo world war 👏👏👏👏
Click to expand...
Well I’m just very anti-nuclear weapons. I would like to see a concerted effort to rid the world of these things for good, not tests and threats. I know it’s not realistic and I understand the issues of mutually assured destruction and all that, but it’s how I feel.
 
Yingyang said:
This is exactly how miscalculation and misunderstanding leads to misinterpretation repeated over and over again. Putin has clearly mentioned all weapons or means at his disposal, Putin has in the past put nuclear forces on alert. Neither means he is going to use or blackmail anyone, it is simply a attempted deterrent for the west getting involved with support for a non nato country in his region. Some people blow things way out of proportion to suit the propaganda. Yet the propaganda doesn't clearly match the claims eg. Mad man with nukes. Otherwise we wouldn't be communicating right now. That mad man with nukes has had access to launch for how long? Since he was in power so do the maths.? Madness isn't controlled.Get real. Don't believe the hype as it has been debunked obviously by now. He has had several chances to use a tactical nuke since this started and obviously hasn't. A few eg. 1. The minute he realised the west were supplying weapons.
2. The minute he realised he was failing in a fast objective.
3. The minute his flag ship was sunk.
4. The minute he was notified about Crimean Bridge.
Let's not forget every other opportunity with less than exceptable reasons of which a mad man doesn't care about justification. Sorry for the pun but in all honesty (seriously? )
Further more Putin force the west to get involved in his regional issues, the west voluntarily decided to support a non nato country. Putin seriously stuffed up in so many ways with his dealing with Ukraine and the west from the get go. But that doesn't mean the west had to get involved. Nato rejected Ukraine as part of NATO a while ago and Zelinski wanted to try again. Whether it was corruption or any other reason fact is Ukraine had what 50yrs to defend itself. Please.🤣😂🤣
No the money they saved on military expenses to bolster its own defence for an issue they were well aware of is the same money and weapons these western countries are depleting themselves of .🤣😂🤣🤪🙄
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All facts. I have been seeing (prior to the past few weeks) overall restraint by USA and even the dictator of Russia, but increasing escalation.
So for me, it is about the growing escalation, and when will it be the tipping point.
In terms of Ukraine defense, I would use 30 years since the fall of USSR as a more reasonable time for Ukraine to build defense, but of course, it would never have a defense comparable to Russia, which is the real issue. We have not been so close in a direct war with a nuclear superpower.
 
dopey said:
So being paid for it.

Then Putin must of offered him something better then tax write offs or investments. Like cheap lithium for his #1 profiting business which desperately and seriously underline the word desperately needs cheap lithium to survive. Space X will not cover all his expenditures for ALL his business ventures.

Whoever has been "talking in his ears" has seriously royally screwed and tainted the companies reputation of Musks ventures.
Click to expand...
"Paid" - No fan of Elon Musk. But respect for facts. Starlink services = billions of dollars.
Musk asking after all this time = millions of dollars. Pennies. Really pennies.
Listen, USA has billions of dollars for others in the military-industrial complex, not USA public in poverty = entire population of Ukraine.
The nonsense attacks on Musk only help discredit partisans for military support of Ukraine.
It really does not help, and the nuclear escalation language does not help.
 
DEFCON Warning System said:
Starlink doesn't make that much money. There are only 1 million users in the entire world.

Right now, Starlink loses money.
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Writing about "value" of Starlinks to Ukraine and NATO in the Ukraine war against Russia.
Sure an iPhone is just 100-200 USD and average data plan of 100-200 USD/month. But that is a peacetime tool, not when your nation is having infstructure blown up.

It is not at all about the number of users, but the ability of Starlink to provide communications during war circumstances with otherwise recurring Internet access blackouts.
Without Musk's Starlink SATCOM -based systems (or USA DOD equivalents) and which are now Russia targets, Ukraine would have been totally defeated in March.
Ukraine does not have all of the systems that the USA DOD has spent endless billions of dollars in R&D and development. That is a massive investment.
I don't think USA / West fully appreciate the scope of that investment, which is virtually incalculable.

Ukraine would have lasted less than one week using Bluetooth communications, Mesh Network Emergency Communications, UHF/VHF, walkie-talkies, etc.
USA DOD has DCGS, and a wide range of systems (I won't reference here) designed for global emergency and military comms. Even FEMA has such systems.
These systems don't research, design, build, implement, deploy, and support themselves - that is a massive USA $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ investment.

USA has been using Starlink as a bandaid, as there has not been time, organization, and international support for such investments in Ukraine.
And thus far, the bandaids have worked, they have kept Ukraine in the fight against Russia. That is actually a modern miracle. It is no small irony that that modern miracle is getting no coverage, but what a Putin-stooge, corrupt, fill-in-the-blank _______ Elon Musk is.
Without Musk's vision, Ukraine would very likely have fallen 6 months ago.
 
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REALHumanRights said:
"value" of Starlinks to Ukraine and NATO in the Ukraine war against Russia.
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Not much because the alternative is for Ukraine to use US communication satellite networks which is the best in the world. So maybe Musk is doing Ukraine a favor and stepping aside so Ukraine can use a much much better satellite communication/internet network.
 
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