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Spy Balloon/UFO Events | Feb 2nd-12th

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RiffRaff said:
If someone shoots at it from their back yard could they trigger an international incident?

Asking... for a friend...
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Not really, 🤣😂 though there are some other problems to consider such as...,

On a technicality you would of been interfering with a ongoing US military operation since the military was conducting counter-intelligence on the spycraft. May be labeled as a terrorist act.

Guess not so much a technicality huh... that would be straight up interfering with a ongoing US military operation.

We all know what happens to people who do that. ☠🔒 Good thing your "friend" didn't do it. I hear Military Tribunals/courts are brutal and they weigh heavy on punishment. 🥶😉
 
DarkNoon said:
Military Tribunals/courts are brutal and they weigh heavy on punishment. 🥶😉
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Fun facts for everyone. Military Tribunals/Courts can try civilians but usually only in terrorists cases and normaly would need martial law in all other cases... but who follows the constitution anymore? What is even that thing? 🤣😂 (sarcastic)

Though Military Courts cannot hand out the death penalty to civilians only services men. Of which there are 15 offensives a Tribunal can push for the death penalty & none of which your "Friend" would qualify for. 😂🤣😉
 
DarkNoon said:
Fun facts for everyone. Military Tribunals/Courts can try civilians but usually only in terrorists cases and normaly would need martial law in all other cases... but who follows the constitution anymore? What is even that thing? 🤣😂 (sarcastic)

Though Military Courts cannot hand out the death penalty to civilians only services men. Of which there are 15 offensives a Tribunal can push for the death penalty & none of which your "Friend" would qualify for. 😂🤣😉
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They wanted to so, they changed the rules during the Lincoln Assassination trial. All civilians 4/8 hung. (3 life 1 six yrs) I wouldn’t count on walking away.
 
Chinese balloons crossed into US airspace three times during the Trump administration. He did not order them shot down. He did not inform the public.

www.forbes.com

Yes, Chinese Spy Balloons Flew Over The U.S. When President Trump Was In Office Too

Talking heads on cable TV were up in arms about the Chinese spy balloon that was shot down over the Atlantic Ocean on Saturday. But Chinese balloons were flying over the U.S. when former President Donald Trump was in office too.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com

The Biden administration only informed the public after a local news station in Montana got lucky with the story. Who knows if they would have said anything at all or even shot it down over the Atlantic if no one knew it was there?

To my conservative and liberal friends: We cannot trust the government, regardless of who is in office. We cannot fix this problem until more people realize this.
 
FoLEjw6XwAAnFhH
 
RiffRaff said:
The Biden administration only informed the public after a local news station in Montana got lucky with the story. Who knows if they would have said anything at all or even shot it down over the Atlantic if no one knew it was there?

To my conservative and liberal friends: We cannot trust the government, regardless of who is in office. We cannot fix this problem until more people realize this.
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It can also be argued that the general public does not necessarily have the right to receive real-time information on sensitive military matters. It results in media frenzies, political interference and stupid decisions made for PR reasons rather than in the interest of national security. It can also lead to unnecessary escalation and wars that might have otherwise been avoided.
 
Socom7 said:
It can also be argued that the general public does not necessarily have the right to receive real-time information on sensitive military matters. It results in media frenzies, political interference and stupid decisions made for PR reasons rather than in the interest of national security. It can also lead to unnecessary escalation and wars that might have otherwise been avoided.
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Valid point. But too much stuff is "classified" even though making it public would not compromise national security.
 
RiffRaff said:
Valid point. But too much stuff is "classified" even though making it public would not compromise national security.
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That's not really knowable, though, is it? I mean, if it's classified and we don't know about it then how can we tell if releasing it would compromise natsec?

Given how revanchist and jingoistic the public tends to be, I would advise to err on the side of caution. For example, not many people realize that there was direct air-to-air combat (with losses on both sides) between US and Soviet aircraft during the Vietnam war. They managed to sweep it under the rug in the interest of avoiding escalation. Now imagine the headlines if this kind of stuff got out today. We'd be looking at a ratings-induced nuclear war.
 
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RiffRaff said:
Valid point. But too much stuff is "classified" even though making it public would not compromise national security.
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Classified .
That word is in its way to becoming the most overused word of 2023.
And well on its way to becoming meaningless.
 
Given that this sort of thing had evidently happened before, I propose that the only reason the stupid balloon got shot down was due to political pressure on Biden - thus making it a blatant example of how leaking classified stuff makes everything worse.

I also suspect that the US has its own underhanded ways of collecting intelligence on China - which we may not necessarily know about. Best it stays that way.
 
I believe that since satellites are up anyways, that most major powers tend to ignore any overflight of reconnaissance platforms at or above Flight Level 60.

(Based on personal exposure and experience not a written policy. Definitely OPINION)
 
Socom7 said:
"Shoot it down" isn't usually the first choice when responding to an unauthorized flight (though 9/11 did change attitudes a bit). The standard course of action is to determine whether the aircraft in question presents a threat; if not, it is usually escorted out of your airspace and diplomatic action ensues. Manned flights may be instructed to land at a designated airfield, and coerced in case of noncompliance - but obviously you can't do that with a balloon. Kinetic action is generally regarded as the last resort.

The fact that it hasn't been shot down is - to me - an indication that NORAD has a pretty good idea what it is, where it's going, and what it's capable of - and that they're not worried.
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Yes, but IMO that balloon had some possibilities to manouver, using compressed air. However, it has been finally shot down. But only after it had scanned some US nuclear facilities, that is an hostile action. I think that should be inadmissible. I would have shot down it immediately.
 
bartok said:
I would have shot down it immediately.
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That's the gist of the problem, I suppose. "Shoot it down immediately", eh. Everyone's gut reaction. Understandable and excusable, of course, given the circumstances.

In real life, however, there's a grey zone when it comes to the contact line between great powers. There's a thorough accounting of risks and benefits - or at least there should be. Not every action warrants a flashy response, and not all situations are as clear-cut as the newsmedia would have us believe. Navigating this razor's edge takes a certain measure of finesse, and it is best done away from the limelight.
 
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Socom7 said:
That's the gist of the problem, I suppose. "Shoot it down immediately", eh. Everyone's gut reaction. Understandable and excusable, of course, given the circumstances.

In real life, however, there's a grey zone when it comes to the contact line between great powers. There's a thorough accounting of risks and benefits - or at least there should be. Not every action warrants a flashy response, and not all situations are as clear-cut as the newsmedia would have us believe. Navigating this razor's edge takes a certain measure of finesse, and it is best done away from the limelight.
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Biden seems to not have shot down it before, in order to preserve civilian population from debris. A part from that, the balloon could have been shot down at any moment: it will not be such an action to make a war between US anch China begin.
 
bartok said:
Biden seems to not have shot down it before, in order to preserve civilian population from debris. A part from that, the balloon could have been shot down at any moment: it will not be such an action to make a war between US anch China begin.
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Naturally this won't trigger a US/China war. But have you considered that China may now be forced to retaliate against US intel gathering ops? Perhaps it would have been prudent for US to let this one slide in exchange for whatever they're getting out of their own efforts? There's absolutely no way we can meaningfully second-guess the administration on this issue given our meager access to information. To think otherwise is folly.
 
bartok said:
Biden seems to not have shot down it before, in order to preserve civilian population from debris. A part from that, the balloon could have been shot down at any moment: it will not be such an action to make a war between US anch China begin.
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Pure speculation on my part. But I would think that once this ballon was spotted, any information gathering equipment was immediately disabled by some kind technology that the U.S. possess. (tin foil hat time: laser, giant reflector mirror bouncing off sun's rays). Ok, maybe not one of those, but something. Then it was allowed to continue on its path to - A)see what it was going to fly over; B)Embarrass the Chinese; or C)they really were concerned about falling debris and waited for it to get to the ocean.
My guess, a little of all 3.
 
Socom7 said:
Naturally this won't trigger a US/China war. But have you considered that China may now be forced to retaliate against US intel gathering ops? Perhaps it would have been prudent for US to let this one slide in exchange for whatever they're getting out of their own efforts? There's absolutely no way we can meaningfully second-guess the administration on this issue given our meager access to information. To think otherwise is folly.
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Ok, all can be! But in general, thinking about what we know for sure, if someone spies your nuclear facilities with a balloon on your own airspace, the logical thing to do is to shout down it. In fact, it is what happened. The only difference, it's that I would shot down it immediately. I would have attributed possible casualites on Chinese hostile action: would be absolutely nothing more compared to what it's true.
 
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