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- defconwarningsystem
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Mine updated without a problem. But I do hear you. A previous update did the same thing and I had to reinstall Windows. Very annoying.
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P.S.A WINDOW USERS: Recent Windows Update Fried My PC
- Thread starter NuclearID
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Well if I am being honest. Windows 98 was the bomb. Very smooth and streamlined. Easy to follow or manage. I hated windows 7. Personally everything after XP was
. Windows 10 is OK. But still nowhere as good as it should be.
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- defconwarningsystem
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You hate Windows 7? I understand it was quite popular.
Had nothing but issues with it. Compatibility with old games was shit with that windows too.
Not sure why.
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2023
You're gonna give poor Linus Torvalds an aneurysm.
macOS and all other BSD/UNIX derivatives share zero lineage with Linux.
(It would also be illegal, as Linux is under strict copyleft license.)
They all adhere to the POSIX standard for system commands and C programming interfaces, and their kernels share famous stability. But underneath the hood, they are totally unrelated projects w/ different legal licenses (BSD vs copyleft GNU). UNIX is older. Excuse my triggeredness and carry on...
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I should've included Riff-Raff's full quote to be clear:You're gonna give poor Linus Torvalds an aneurysm.
macOS and all other BSD/UNIX derivatives share zero lineage with Linux.
(It would also be illegal, as Linux is under strict copyleft license.)
They all adhere to the POSIX standard for system commands and C programming interfaces, and their kernels share famous stability. But underneath the hood, they are totally unrelated projects w/ different legal licenses (BSD vs copyleft GNU). UNIX is older. Excuse my triggeredness and carry on...
"My work computer is Mac, which beneath its Fisher Price GUI is running a version of Linux"
...which again is totally false. But you can run Linux on a Mac.
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And years ago as exercise I built a Hackintosh on an old PC and ran it in a virtual environment on a windows PC. Worked like a dog butwas done to just prove the possibility. Has long gone to the virtual digital graveyard.
What I hate about Windows is the sometimes enforced and madatory updated. Almost like saying an update has been downloaded and you will update. If not when you shutdown it will be installed when you next power up. You cannot escape and you thought you could.
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One other thing people don't realise is that many of the checks that Windows 11 does on installation especially those for compatable harware and those pesky security chips can be bypassed as I have installed it on many devices that should never have had it installed on them as an upgrade. These were open licenses that I can transfer to other PCs as I see fit or as I upgrade.
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And don't forget that Microsoft through its many foundations is working closely with the Linux base with many things under the Linux open software model to enhance and improve windows and windows interoperability. My favourite with Linux is Samaba which provides interoperability with network based filesystems. I use Linux as a secure cental fileserver and database server. I also use some Linux boxes with boosted network cards to provide a bridged network with the link multiplexed across these cards to boost the connection speed above what can be achieved at the baseline. This link provides encrypted data and telephony links between two locations that are visible to each other but many kilometers apart. This is even though it is in potential violation of local telecommunication rules.
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I'm aware that MacOS is Apple's version of BSD under the hood, which is not the same as Linux. But most people won't get that distinction. Most people have heard of Linux; only nerds know about BSD. They both trace back to a common ancestor, so they are related. I was trying to keep it simple.
So, while technically you are correct, I don't think that "totally false" is accurate when trying to describe Mac to the great unwashed. Arguments over operating systems is a whole other thread topic.
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No, "a version of Linux" is not even a little bit true. There's no argument that it is...
Beyond the principle, you're implying people can take Linux commands and run them in their Mac Terminal. There are rare cases (e.g. different non-posix flag meanings) where that can be disastrous. Confused people do this with StackExchange scripts all the time.
It's possible to be simple without telling a lie and contributing to that.
Yeah, I can sympathize with that. I would've said "running a precursor of Linux"- same number of words, much more truthful, won't practically mislead people.
I've seen Butterfly effect-style consequences due to inaccurate communication IRL, and I correct things where I believe it matters. I have pain and regret over saying even minor inaccurate things that I can't fix. Some childhood psychopathology here...
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- Apr 8, 2017
I think you're trying to over explain to the individuals who only care about the GUI/Shell system of linux/mac/windows.
The shells in Linux and Mac can match, which causes the "file system" to look the same though the "terminal". Pipe Command can work in powershell, zsh, bash, etc.
Nobody really needs to know the separation from Linux/Mac unless they are a developer and 9/10 it only comes down to the API that allows us to communicate with the system directly which (WORA: Write Once Run Anywhere) is the system's API. If you look at C++, we need Cmake to "generate the build" because the way to get the system to interpret for each system is different based on the API provided to us by the Operating System.
Each OS has its own way of handling system interprets including the lookup tables for tasking, memory management, threading,).
(((EDITED: Obviously it also matters to the system itself, but there's levels to this stuff. Just as the gui/shell matters to the avg user, to the developer the header files (sometimes negated by WORA) matters. ) Most of your OS stuff unless you're a driver developer or a developer working on very very low level things will be abstracted away in a way the system only cares about itself aka how the memory and intercepts, and structure of the list of device call numbers works.)))
To be honest to them it doesn't matter, if it looks like Linux it pretty much is Linux. The Shell is used between Linux/Mac are the same (and if not you can make it that way). Widows is the same with Mysys where you can get a shell in it that resembles linux/mac.
The only time it matters the difference is to developers who are interacting with system-level APIs think of how Windows commands to open the drive from the window (Windows.h) file, vs Linux (cdrom.h), or Mac at (IOKitlib.h).
So to them no it's not different and it shouldn't be considered too different to them because the shell is pretty much going to be the same between mac/linux, meanwhile, windows use a totally different look compared to the two (Linux/mac) and they have their own shell called PowerShell.
To us developers it's different, to them no. If you're using a WORA programming language (this can be touchy if we look at python opencv or other libraries that link to an original in c/c++ etc) you'll have an issue, but if you're doing baseline stuff as a programmer the WORA programming language it won't really matter.
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- Mar 9, 2023
I was talking to Riff-Raff in what you quoted, not to anyone else.
Changing 1 word in his original post (as I suggested) is hardly over-explaining.
Truthfulness matters. I don't post an unmitigated falsehood just because it's convenient.
Beyond principle, it can and does matter to basic shell users and I said exactly why in my response you quoted.
Do you know how many people lurk DWS? More than the few posters here. Confused people who think that Mac=Linux do go around running Linux scripts from StackExchange on their Mac. BSD/GNU is peppered with command flag differences that can lead to serious errors. Murphy's law...
I won't apologize for having a conscience or for trying to prevent Riff-Raff's contribution to that (above). I'm aware that I'm pathologically hypersensitive. I admitted that. I was hoping we could move on.
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If we are 100% honest many individuals who use computers aren't programmers. If we get even more serious if you're a Linux user you're inclined to understand programming more.I was talking to Riff-Raff in what you quoted, not to anyone else.
Changing 1 word in his original post (as I suggested) is hardly over-explaining.
Truthfulness matters. I don't post an unmitigated falsehood just because it's convenient.
Beyond principle, it can and does matter to basic shell users and I said exactly why in my response you quoted.
Do you know how many people lurk DWS? More than the few posters here. Confused people who think that Mac=Linux do go around running Linux scripts from StackExchange on their Mac. BSD/GNU is peppered with command flag differences that can lead to serious errors. Murphy's law...
I won't apologize for having a conscience or for trying to prevent Riff-Raff's contribution to that. I'm aware that I'm pathologically hypersensitive. I admitted that. I was hoping we could move on.
Most people who aren't programming/don't actively do sys-admin or techie based work won't interact with a command prompt or such. basic shell users are using grep are using list directory, and simply adding and removing files. Even then they are mostly looking up guides how to do it or how to find out what shell they are on.
Your avg windows/mac user aren't programmers. Most people who use programs won't download a non-gui. That's why some companies sell programs ontop of cli based programs (or they offer it for free). How many normal people do you think (non-programmers/pen testers/scrapers) are going to use curl.
Rarely are people going to download Linux scripts from stack exchange on mac and run them and not google or try to understand what the given error means via google (if they aren't interested in programming or knowing more about computers inherently). That allows for the learning process and they will eventually build that up that it's different.
This is comparable to the avg american trying to use turbo-tax vs a tax-accountant trying to use turbo tax. The avg user cares a lot less than a person who's an accountant with the options offered by a program. 9/10 the person just wants to get it done with ease and template based, the accountant want to be specific to squeeze the most out of it because they are a dedicate member of that community.
I feel like you're taking offense to the statement instead of it being eye opening because this is a thing of MVP (minimum viable product). A basic user isn't likely to use a CLI tool at all. An advanced user is more likely. You have to look at your demograpic and to be honest to most people it doesn't matter if it's linux/mac or windows.
The biggest distinction to the avg user is Windows is windows and gives me clickable things on screen, Mac is the same way, and then there's Linux which has "scary text based black box that opens up and I type into it".
Give me the biggest end user CLI program vs the end user GUI Program and we'll see who makes more money because you're wanting to sell to the avg person on an os.
It's like talking about Steam vs Origin vs Epic. The end user gets gui and game. The avg person doesn't care about ecology, doesn't care about the in depths of economics and such. They have someone who is knowledgeable give them the knowledge. You can't expect the avg user to be comparable to the advanced user because the avg user doesn't do or care about what the expert user does.
It's like telling the avg gamer the architecture difference Ryzen and Intel or each generation... they don't care about they care about "what pushes better frames".
Notice how when the avg gamer encounters an issue or the user of a program they will go online look it up and just plug and play the issue and fixes it. they don't care about the issue, they just want the stuff to run. meanwhile the advanced user wants to understand that to prevent it in the future.
((with this in mind, that's why we have all of these abstractions and such to allow the end user (customer/user) to do the stuff with ease)). To use a computer you don't need to understand every bit of the arch, every bit of the build system, every bit of system interrupts or data storage. There's a reason why we have installers and it's because it makes it easy for the end user aka Riff-Raff.
HIGHLIGHT----
Installers abstract the entire install process. the graphical icons abstract away calling the program directly in command prompt. The taskbar/desktop is a place that abstracts needing to go into the file system and find your program. The abstractions are a border to allow you to go deeper if you want and not be bogged down if not.
HIGHLIGHT---
People don't want to open up connections to communicate directly with each other, that's why we have web browsers, Skype, discord, and programs that do it for us with cli tools or frameworks/libraries. You're talking to an end user like they are an expert.
----Though I respect what you're trying to explain---
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- Mar 9, 2023
I know you're joking, but no, "correct" without any proviso is the best kind of correct. You're insinuating that calling Mac "a version of Linux" has some truthfulness to it. It doesn't, and calling it that is confusing and misleading for "newbie non-nerds" who want to use the shell. See consequences above.
I believe it does matter, and I don't see a coherent argument that it doesn't. Yeah, I take things way too seriously. If you're tired of me, we can stop the thread derail here..
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I was just trying to lighten the atmosphere. This isn't my fight nor really know what you all are discussing.I know you're joking, but no, "correct" without any proviso is the best kind of correct. You're insinuating that calling Mac "a version of Linux" has some truthfulness to it. It doesn't, and calling it that is confusing and misleading for "newbie non-nerds" who want to use the shell. See consequences above.
I believe it does matter, and I don't see a coherent argument that it doesn't. Yeah, I take things way too seriously. If you're tired of me, we can stop the thread derail here..
Whenever I see someone say your technically correct I think of that Futurama bit of the head bureaucrat.