• Guests may view all public nodes. However, you must be registered to post.

Poly Market: USA Dumps NATO

Torch

DEFCON Staff
Staff member
Donator
Joined
Mar 4, 2022
Location
Louisiana
This is for fun. Do not drag emotions and partisan rhetoric here. Just place your bets and take your chances.


 
I’m going with: No. Not this year either as it would take longer than that to bring home or relocate 6 weeks of warfighting equipment and munitions.
 
Yeah I don't see it. Trump wouldn't get congressional approval, and for all the bluster, NATO provides the US with key strategic footholds around the world. Lots of mutual benefits all round.
 
This is for fun. Do not drag emotions and partisan rhetoric here. Just place your bets and take your chances.


While he can't leave NATO on papper. Trump can realistically end NATO all but in name.

As commander in chief he does not need congress to move troops, equipment, assets, boats. And he could realistically bring a lot of our boys home from Europe and a lot of the equipment too before he leaves office. Probably not everything. But enough to make our commitments just superficial not structural.

And US can of course stonewall any Article 4 or 5 votes and even if passed, sending just a single technical advisor would be sufficient to fulfill our obligation under treaty law.

I'm all for it so long as the power mass we had in Europe is transplanted into the Asian theater where it's truly needed.

Do not want a forever retraction of our force posture globally. If we leave Europe everything there must "skip go" and go directly to Asia and some to Africa to replace the airbridge. Full stop. Anything less would be self defeating.
 
I think a lot of European countries are going to have to think long and hard. Most are going to have to cut their social programs and safety nets in order to build a military to deter Russia. Because sooner or later it seems, we are on our way out one way or another. Weather informally or formerly. And hope your ready to stand on your own. Again, in the seemingly near future.
 
I think a lot of European countries are going to have to think long and hard. Most are going to have to cut their social programs and safety nets in order to build a military to deter Russia. Because sooner or later it seems, we are on our way out one way or another. Weather informally or formerly. And hope your ready to stand on your own. Again, in the seemingly near future.
Russia is not capable of defeating Ukraine; it would not stand a chance against NATO and Europe alone without the USA.
 

Pentagon email floats suspending Spain from NATO, other steps over Iran rift, source says​


The US cannot expel Spain from NATO; it requires unanimity. A lot of things are said by the US; that country really talks nonsense.
 
The US is useless to NATO; no NATO country has ever requested the activation of Article 5, which is responsible for the attack.
The only one that requested it was the US, during 9/11. Imagine, it wasn't even a country.
 
Russia is not capable of defeating Ukraine; it would not stand a chance against NATO and Europe alone without the USA.
My point exactly. Our forces in Europe are just wasted resources sitting there for what exactly... They could be doing a hell of a lot more good in Asia deterring the growing red dragon in the Pacific.
 

Pentagon email floats suspending Spain from NATO, other steps over Iran rift, source says​


It should be noted that we haven't seen the memo. The story relies on one guy claiming that it says such and such.

Of course, it pretty much aligns with what Trump has said. Except for the Falklands. That was kind of a surprise.
 
I don't think the US should withdraw from NATO. I do think the US should withdraw from the UN. The UN was founded at the end of WWII when Russia and China were allis. That is not the case today.
 
considering the USA pays for a lot of things for the EU the usa should pull out .
If the EU or UK devolved into war, the US wouldn't be able to bury it's head in the sand like it's pre-pearl harbour.
Our economies are deeply intertwined (see the financial crash for evidence), so the US would go down with us, at least economically.

The US gets a multitude of excellent forward operating positions via NATO. e.g. Diego garcia, Ramstein AFB etc...
We came to your aid in 2001 when you were attacked. British troops fought alongside American in Afghanistan & Iraq.

To turn your back on NATO and return to isolationism will put the US at a *deep* strategic disadvantage that I'm sure China would take advantage of.
 
Our economies are deeply intertwined (see the financial crash for evidence), so the US would go down with us, at least economically.
It would be hard, but it certainly would not be “the end of things” for us. Not even close.

Also, since 2008, many businesses have sought to diversify so that, you know, most of their eggs are not in one basket.

I’m not saying a 2008 level crash can’t happen again, but it wouldn’t be as bad if repeated today for the same reasons it happened last time.

Plus, new financial laws and diversification help prevent such a severe crash from happening again, at least in the way it manifested then.

You can’t stop crashes in a capitalistic society, but you can temper them and pad them, no doubt.
 
It would be hard, but it certainly would not be “the end of things” for us. Not even close.

Also, since 2008, many businesses have sought to diversify so that, you know, most of their eggs are not in one basket.

I’m not saying a 2008 level crash can’t happen again, but it wouldn’t be as bad if repeated today for the same reasons it happened last time.

Plus, new financial laws and diversification help prevent such a severe crash from happening again, at least in the way it manifested then.

You can’t stop crashes in a capitalistic society, but you can temper them and pad them, no doubt.
For example, Germany took the dumb way and didn’t pad its crash, which is why it’s in a worse financial position than most of Western Europe. While everyone around them was padding their economy with financial stimulus through policy, the German government did nothing. Almost 10 years later, you can see how doing nothing truly hurts. Everyone around Germany is doing relatively fine economically and in terms of growth.

Germany has stalled almost entirely and has never truly recovered from the 2008 crash, then the COVID crash, as both times they did nothing. They didn’t stimulate or pad their economy to counteract either crash.

But now I’m getting wildly off topic over the interconnectivity of global economies and how 2008 and the COVID crash have pretty much taught everyone the lesson to diversify. So, it’s not as bad as you would think if the UK economy suddenly just vanished for whatever reason. Would be bad. But not world ending.

And last I heard, big money has been jumping ship in the UK, and it is a real urgent problem. The UK’s future economy, I would almost dare say, is going to need life support.

But that doesn’t have to deal with crashes. That’s just a poorly managed economy coupled with extremely poor policy decisions, such as leaving the EU right before COVID. If it wasn’t for COVID, Brexit probably wouldn’t have been as bad. But with you guys leaving the EU, it meant you couldn’t get EU stimulus packages during COVID, and that really hurt you guys in the end.

I mean before leaving EU you could have never know COVID was coming. Still. Isn't the universe a bitch? Leave EU, COVID, no EU stim packages, years of decline. Yikes. Definitely one for the history books.
 
Then you have the U.S. on the opposite side of the spectrum from Germany. Germany did too little, or almost nothing. The U.S. did too much, of everything, and then inflation hit record highs.

So, it cuts both ways.

The point is that maximalist policies on either side of the fence are wrong. Doing too little is wrong. Doing too much is also wrong.

👉So don't mistake my posts above as just shitting on Europe. I'm critical of US too. More critical on maximalist policies in general.
 
If the EU or UK devolved into war, the US wouldn't be able to bury it's head in the sand like it's pre-pearl harbour.
Our economies are deeply intertwined (see the financial crash for evidence), so the US would go down with us, at least economically.

The US gets a multitude of excellent forward operating positions via NATO. e.g. Diego garcia, Ramstein AFB etc...
We came to your aid in 2001 when you were attacked. British troops fought alongside American in Afghanistan & Iraq.

To turn your back on NATO and return to isolationism will put the US at a *deep* strategic disadvantage that I'm sure China would take advantage of.
what makes you think china already hasn't with the flood of non Europeans into the country?
 
Back
Top Bottom