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American Airlines Flight 5342 an Black Hawk Collision (&) Rescue Air Ambulance Learjet 55 Crash - UPDATES

🆕 Philadelphia plane crash latest updates: All crew and passengers in medical jet crash identified; death toll rises to seven​

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www.yahoo.com

Philadelphia plane crash latest: Black box recovered as crew and passengers in medical jet crash identified

All six passengers on board the Learjet 55 aircraft that crashed shortly after taking off from Northeast Philadelphia Airport have been identified
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com
***EXCERPT***
The debris field is roughly four to six blocks and there is an additional remote area where “something” happened with the aircraft, the city’s Managing Director Adam Thiel said.

Thiel wouldn’t expand on his remark but said the National Transportation Safety Board would address it later.
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www.military.com

Data From the Deadliest U.S. Air Accident in a Generation Show Conflicting Altitude Readings

Investigators hope to reconcile the altitude differences with data from the helicopter's black box, which is taking more time to retrieve because it became waterlogged after it plunged into the Potomac River.
www.military.com www.military.com

Data From the Deadliest U.S. Air Accident in a Generation Show Conflicting Altitude Readings​

Preliminary data from the deadliest U.S. aviation accident in nearly 25 years showed conflicting readings about the altitudes of an airliner and Army helicopter when they collided near Reagan National Airport in Washington, killing everyone aboard both aircraft, investigators said Saturday.

Data from the jet’s flight recorder showed its altitude as 325 feet (99 meters), plus or minus 25 feet (7.6 meters), when the crash happened Wednesday night, National Transportation Safety Board officials told reporters. Data in the control tower, though, showed the Black Hawk helicopter at 200 feet (61 meters) at the time.

The roughly 100-foot (30-meter) discrepancy has yet to be explained.
 
Spyglass said:
Plane is actually on fire.

Something isn’t right… funny feeling in the gut.

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Oh brother... you do realize this kind of stuff happens literally everyday all around the country? This isn't some big conspiracy or connected attack... I get that your human trait of pattern recognition is itching to draw a parallel but to try to argue that the pilots who were transporting a damn shriners patient deliberately crashed into the ground... is just sad man. Also hacking a learjet to do what? Take full controls? Disrupt Avionics? That is not even remotely possible.
 
Not to mention the fact that when you are in a downward flat spin stall you are withstanding a large amount of G force. They were most likely unconsious for most of the descent, which explains why they are not seen trying to "pull out of it". I would argue that it is impossible to pull a learjet out of that kind of stall but to each their own perception of jet engines and wind resistance...
 
Peter Griffin said:
Oh brother... you do realize this kind of stuff happens literally everyday all around the country? This isn't some big conspiracy or connected attack... I get that your human trait of pattern recognition is itching to draw a parallel but to try to argue that the pilots who were transporting a damn shriners patient deliberately crashed into the ground... is just sad man. Also hacking a learjet to do what? Take full controls? Disrupt Avionics? That is not even remotely possible.
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Oh it’s possible.

I wasn’t implying a conspiracy or a connected attack, you’re creating a narrative that isn’t there. What I was implying is that something is wrong with either the supply chain, parts, ATC computers, false data, something.

I have quite the knowledge of aviation, planes are one of my favorite things. That plane had new datasets transmitted every 3 seconds on flight trackers. The plane didn’t stall. The very public flight data says the plane was at 248kt, and 1650 feet. Everything was normal. Then, 3 seconds later it’s at 1200 feet, then 0 3 seconds later. A stall is not supported by the angle of ascent which was 0 degrees, as per the flight data, and the airspeed.

Something exploded on board or the stick was given input to drive it into the ground. It’s one of two possibilities.

It’s horrible, no question, but 4 aircraft accidents in 4 days, and 2 of them fatal crashes? Yes I see a pattern, can’t blame me. But you also need to remember the past events before 2024 was over.

Remember the South Korean 777 that skidded off a runway and killed half the passenfers? That was about a month ago I think.

Remember the plane shot down over Russia?

Remember the Boeing doors? Remember the 737 MAX being grounded not once; but twice?

A lot of things are happening quicker than statistically normal. All I am saying. Makes you wonder what mechanism is causing it. All I am saying.
 
Spyglass said:
Oh it’s possible.

I wasn’t implying a conspiracy or a connected attack, you’re creating a narrative that isn’t there. What I was implying is that something is wrong with either the supply chain, parts, ATC computers, false data, something.

I have quite the knowledge of aviation, planes are one of my favorite things. That plane had new datasets transmitted every 3 seconds on flight trackers. The plane didn’t stall. The very public flight data says the plane was at 248kt, and 1650 feet. Everything was normal. Then, 3 seconds later it’s at 1200 feet, then 0 3 seconds later. A stall is not supported by the angle of ascent which was 0 degrees, as per the flight data, and the airspeed.

Something exploded on board or the stick was given input to drive it into the ground. It’s one of two possibilities.

It’s horrible, no question, but 4 aircraft accidents in 4 days, and 2 of them fatal crashes? Yes I see a pattern, can’t blame me. But you also need to remember the past events before 2024 was over.

Remember the South Korean 777 that skidded off a runway and killed half the passenfers? That was about a month ago I think.

Remember the plane shot down over Russia?

Remember the Boeing doors? Remember the 737 MAX being grounded not once; but twice?

A lot of things are happening quicker than statistically normal. All I am saying. Makes you wonder what mechanism is causing it. All I am saying.
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Please. Enlighten me on the connection between the three. I'm waiting.
 
Also I would love to peruse the dataset you are using to claim that these (even though they are blatantly completely unrelated) incidents are happening quicker than statistically normal. Sure, I won't deny it's been a hard couple of years for aviation. But whatever clearcut mechanism you think you are going to find that is causing these incidents, is not findable. These incidents are tragic accidents, and some of them have been due to faulty mechanics or bad FBW electrical issues in regards to the boeing planes being grounded. After a century of manned aviation and a worldwide flight system rapidly growing every year, yeah these events are going to uptick. That's just what happens when you put more planes in the sky and have a dwindling supply of ATC.
 
Irag8er said:
This?

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This had exactly dick squat to do with the accident.

Having an over worked controller failing to mention there were TWO aircraft crossing the Helicopters position was the ACTUAL cause.

The Legal cause is going to be the Helicopter being to high, unless they were not given or announced a maximum altitude.

I would really like to blame the plane for going 360 miles an hour straight into a helicopter traversing from left to right at 120 but…. Depending on the configuration, you can’t see immediately ahead and below. Sometimes you can, sometimes you can’t. Bet that gives you all a warm fuzzy feeling!

Probably ought to get cameras in the cockpit. Your car has one why not put one in the f*cking Airliner?.

Anyways there were an infinite number of events that would not have allow this accident. Only one was required to cause it.

The helicopter, probably on a route thru controlled airspace, training for an emergency evacuation whilst under fire, flew too high (the correct answer should have been “not at all” as in not crossing the numbers of the active while an airliner is landing)

This was just so avoidable it scary. Most of you might not realize this but if the weather had been WORSE this would not have happened. Ironic and sad.
 
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OReid said:
Be good to hear Torches input on this information

redstate.com

BREAKING: New Details Emerge About Actions of Black Hawk Pilots in Deadly DC Mid-Air Collision

The National Transportation and Safety Board (NTSB) held a news conference Friday to discuss its pre
redstate.com redstate.com
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The following is long, boring and borderline incoherent. I switched it to speech and just let it rip. I recommend most people skip it.
You have been warned.

Everything I say could be completely wrong. It’s not but it could be.
-I’m a medically retired military pilot and a Civilian commercial instrument pilot with 20,000 flight hours (fixed-wing and Rotary) and an aviation safety officer and crash investigator.


Not much there yet, other than the obvious impact. The altitudes are set from a blind encoder, which means they’re normally set at an atmospheric pressure of 29.92 mbar. The display in the aircraft will be corrected either from an observed altitude from known point, which is what most helicopters do or the aircraft field elevation when leaving an airport.

Once in flight, at low altitude, both aircraft would then dial in whatever the correction number was that was provided by tower. Each transponder and altimeter is required to be within 70 feet in either direction of a setting given a by the tower in flight.

OK, basically in the tower “In days of old” the controller sat there and looked at his altimeters and he had one set at 2992 and another one at pressure altitude. Basically this is a way to give corrections for a pressure instrument in both aircraft.

Pressure gauges are quite old and if everything was working perfectly could be 140 feet difference combined!

Aircraft today use that but they also can have a Radar altimeter that gives height above ground. They also can derive their altitude from numerous navigational instruments.

It appears to me that none of these are the problem. The problem is the helicopter did not see the landing aircraft and told the tower that they did and would remain clear. Generally helicopters and all military aircraft can clear themselves.

It’s sad because the pilots certainly thought the controller was discussing the aircraft that overflew them at the approach end of the runway moments before, and the controller at night did not have the depth perception to tell where the helicopter was in relation to the approach of the airliner. Had the weather been worse the airliners approach airspace would’ve been protected and no one would’ve been allowed in it while he landed.

In clear conditions everyone’s is to see and avoid. I’ve been down at 50 feet or less flying down a drainage ditch in a helicopter when airliners have landed over me, no problem. (Assuming I got the hell out of there before the wake turbulence hit me.) I have been in aircraft landing over helicopters again no problem. But being at altitude just across the river and just high enough to catch an aircraft that’s coming in a little low on the numbers is what caused this accident. (when I say a little low, I don’t mean the aircraft was wrong. I’m just saying sometimes they land further down the runway so they’re higher at the approach end. (this guy was shooting a perfect approach. Ironic isn’t it?)

I stand by my earliest assessment. They’re gonna blame the helicopter. And the helicopters altitude and failure to remain clear was the cause.

A present and contributed factor was the failure of the controller to ensure the helicopter do there were two aircraft approaching him, and it was his fault for allowing the approach to take place with the helicopter in proximity to the numbers at night when everyone stepped perception is seriously compromised.

So the helicopters caused it, and the tower could have saved it or even stopped it before it began. Plenty of career Randy blamed to go around, except most of the participants are dead in the helicopter.

The people in the plane are golden and righteous. As far as I can tell the drivers did absolutely nothing wrong. It’s actually damn shame to have. They been a little high or a little left flown a little lazier they never would’ve been in the same airspace as the helicopter at the same time.

We’ll see what happens next.
 
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