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DEFCON 4 | Europe Crisis | December 2021

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Right now the first talks between Biden and Putin started. Think we will what happens in the next days🤷‍♂️

Wish us best of luck
 
DEFCON Warning System said:
Personally, I think road mobile launchers are much better, though. Less accurate, but with today's tech, that shouldn't be a problem.
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In a deterrence role, the accuracy is a total nonissue. Obviously more accurate is better, but as a deterrent force, a significant mobile component is more than feasible.
 
Dr.Seltsam said:
This is stark! Which great war do you want to win? There will be no winners of the "next great war". There is no such thing as a winnable nuclear war.
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I respectfully disagree. If one side can achieve surprise, then nuclear war is completely winnable. One example could be - say - by taking out the GPS systems, power grid, etc (asymmetrical) while launching a full salvo against the enemy's military and ability to retaliate. Hit C&C so launch codes cant be given. Hit the 400 geriatric MMIII unMIRV'ed missles, hit the 4 aging boomers we have deployed at any given time. Poof. Plenty of Russian missiles left for Putin to turn to Europe and say "stick 'em up." I'm sure the Russian General Staff has tried to figure out multiple ways to achieve this.

Bottom line is, Russia and China have been preparing for war for the last 20 years - a war they see as inevitable. We have not been.
 
Obreid said:
  1. My recommendations to negotiations would be for Russia to offer staged return of the territories but with continued Russian involvement in them for security guarantees of the residents. Long term lease of the port at Sevastopol and guaranteed land and air access for Russia.
  2. Immediate and staged roll back of all sanctions on Russian officials and citizens. Except those mutually agreed upon to be involved in human trafficking and sex trade.
  3. Removal of iskanders from Belarus, status quo in Kaliningrad.
  4. Open sky’s agreement over the boarder regions and Russian access to AGEIS ashore sites in Poland and Romania.
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1. You mean Crimea? Unacceptable. And who's going to pay the bill for that bridge and investments? Why no one asks residents of Crimea? With limited Russian access, this place might become a Donbass 2.0 and Ukraine will not be able to hold it, that would require NATO attention that is even more bigger escalation. No half-measures regarding Crimea - come and take it.
2. Who cares about Russian officials? Further removal of sanctions is unacceptable for NATO.
3. There are no Iskanders in Belarus, Lukashenko only proposed to get them. Kaliningrad still swarming with serious weapons tech. Empty point.
4. This might help, but not at the current stage.
krzepice1976 said:
  1. Considering Russia starting point reduction kalingrad forces to 10 000 men is good idea. Kalingrad shall be without long rage missles- no s400, no bastion no islander,. No drill closer than 100 km from nato state borders.
  2. Russia shall reduce ground forces to readonable level forces close to Baltic states. No fly withed off transponders.
  3. Russia shall also stop recognizes two created by them republic. It just preliminary demands .
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1. Removal of strike weaponry like Iskanders are okay, meanwhile removal of defensive weaponry is outright unacceptable. Russia won't reform a Kaliningrad into lamb for slaughter. They must contain serious defensive military forces - it's for safety and ensurance for their people, not even talking about foreign relations. "No drills" won't do much - Russia has enough space with similar environment to conduct anyway.
2. The only "reasonable" level for NATO is - "no forces at all'. Both won't talk it out.
3. Unacceptable. Russian people suffered too much over this and will never forgive Putin for giving up. Those who are remain loyal to him will cease immediately. This might lead to a downfall of a whole country.
 
MikeG said:
There have been many good patriots like yourself bringing this to anyone's attention who would listen. I bring up Jeff Nyquist alot here. that guy's been beating the same drum for 30 years, and we're fast approaching the time he calls "one clenched fist." It doesnt end well for the US or Europe, and it's probably too late. China and Russia have some distinct advantages and they're not about to let us rearm.

The problem is that Congress for the last 20 years or more has been willfully stupid when it comes to this topic. So much so it's as if they WANT the US to lose the next great war. I feel like a sitting duck. We have no civil defense at all either. Nothing. Im pretty sure the PTB's plans are to bug out at let the rest of us fend for ourselves.
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Thank you, that’s exactly what I wanted to say but I had been doing a military challenge by not sleeping for three days 😂. Definitely was the worst dam after Christmas week for me.
 
Texasryan said:
Here’s another article…

tass.com

Kremlin praises Putin-Biden talks as constructive - aide

Yury Ushakov noted that the presidents were well prepared for the conversation
tass.com tass.com


I know, Tass is pro-Russian but at the same time. If they’re saying good things about the talks, its probably actually good things from the Russia side rather than just US MSM blowing everything up.
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I see these talks more concerning rather than relieving. They are spitting threats, and Biden's word to "not arm Ukraine" has no weight - nobody believes him, so that doesn't solve anything. I am glad to see, that Russian diplomacy, as an old school service that still hasn't lost it's grasp since Soviet era, is still being quite competent in risk manegement. With their aggreements sheets, even though not acceptable, they are creating a basis for talks and topics to open discussions. With Stoltenberg acting as of a man not worthy of his station, and US administration being not quire right in their heads - Russia still finds a way to pull these people's minds back in reality, like a psychologist using their methods when talking to mentally ill person.
In fact, in the absence of "framework agreements", which the Russian Federation insists on, such negotiations are only to be accompanied by an exchange of threats, which both sides no longer hide. The cutting of diplomatic relations is the penultimate step on the escalation path. After this - war, in one form or another, is not necessarily direct. Discussion of the inadmissibility of a nuclear war is an important marker showing how degraded the situation in relations between the United States and the Russian Federation is, approaching the level of the Cuban Missile Crisis and the crisis of 1983.
 
The big question is why did Putin call out of the blue? Was it because Estonia is sending NATO weapons and troop body armor to Ukraine non stop? Seems it was something Putin didn’t like and he wanted to get it stopped.

Either that or Putin had a new idea and wanted to float it by Biden. I think the fact the Baltics are sending help to Ukraine is dumb, let the better equipped nations send their cause the Baltic states are going to need every bullet if Belarus and Russia does what I think they are getting ready to do.

Of course they are going to say more talks in January so people don’t freak out. Threatening each other tells us everything we really need to know.
 
Citizen-21 said:
I see these talks more concerning rather than relieving. They are spitting threats, and Biden's word to "not arm Ukraine" has no weight - nobody believes him, so that doesn't solve anything. I am glad to see, that Russian diplomacy, as an old school service that still hasn't lost it's grasp since Soviet era, is still being quite competent in risk manegement. With their aggreements sheets, even though not acceptable, they are creating a basis for talks and topics to open discussions. With Stoltenberg acting as of a man not worthy of his station, and US administration being not quire right in their heads - Russia still finds a way to pull these people's minds back in reality, like a psychologist using their methods when talking to mentally ill person.
In fact, in the absence of "framework agreements", which the Russian Federation insists on, such negotiations are only to be accompanied by an exchange of threats, which both sides no longer hide. The cutting of diplomatic relations is the penultimate step on the escalation path. After this - war, in one form or another, is not necessarily direct. Discussion of the inadmissibility of a nuclear war is an important marker showing how degraded the situation in relations between the United States and the Russian Federation is, approaching the level of the Cuban Missile Crisis and the crisis of 1983.
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I agree to a certain extent, I honestly don’t believe that they’re lobbing threats back and forth. But rather talking to each other in a serious manner such as, “look, we can’t go to war. Nuclear war is not an option” Russia also made the comment about how would the US feel if they put offensive weapons on US Borders. Biden responded with no one will win a nuclear war.

So I don’t think these are threats but rather what you said of bringing people back to earth and making them understand the severity and honestly, some of the good points Russia makes regarding its safety. (Don’t judge me lol)

Another article on TASS stated that this was a good way for Putin to find out the ways the talks would potentially go. They said it looked good rather than some that are going to be almost impossible to agree on. So I think we’re making some progress in the right direction. Slowly.
 
rudemarine said:
The big question is why did Putin call out of the blue? Was it because Estonia is sending NATO weapons and troop body armor to Ukraine non stop? Seems it was something Putin didn’t like and he wanted to get it stopped.
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Yes, Russia is running out of time - soon every Ukrainian house will hold from a squad to platoon of "Johns" and "Billies" within it's walls. And crates of weapons in Ukrainian trenches marked in latin alphabet. Also, if Ukraine is not taken down - Donbass won't last long.

rudemarine said:
Either that or Putin had a new idea and wanted to float it by Biden. I think the fact the Baltics are sending help to Ukraine is dumb, let the better equipped nations send their cause the Baltic states are going to need every bullet if Belarus and Russia does what I think they are getting ready to do.
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This very idea of Russia going into Baltic states is really dumb. If Russia was capable and willing of doing it - we wouldn't been here discussing this situation. The only way for NATO to create opportunities for fighting Russia is poking into certain post-Soviet regions and creating provocations there. If you were right, NATO wouldn't had to deal with all these headaches like overthrowing Ukrainian regime and hybrid wars.
 
The fact that nuclear war was even brought up is concerning. I haven't seen any details of the talks yet, so am only going by what Tass has said.

It seems like the U.S. is the one who broached the subject. Which means the U.S. is seeing conflict. Not a good sign.
 
DEFCON Warning System said:
The fact that nuclear war was even brought up is concerning. I haven't seen any details of the talks yet, so am only going by what Tass has said.

It seems like the U.S. is the one who broached the subject. Which means the U.S. is seeing conflict. Not a good sign.
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This is the point of new diplomatic approach Putin made. A "good word with Nuclear Strategic Forces" is much better than just a "good word".
Now the talks are going to be with a feel of a knife's blade next to own neck.
 
Biden maybe have agreed to not defend Ukraine with nukes, I guess.
That's probably what Russia want's to hear.
But we know what this means for Ukraine.
 
DucknCover said:
Biden maybe have agreed to not defend Ukraine with nukes, I guess.
That's probably what Russia want's to hear.
But we know what this means for Ukraine.
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The U.S. was never going to defend Ukraine with nukes. Only if Russia marches to the border with Poland would that even enter the equation.
 
The U.S. was never going to defend Ukraine with nukes. Only if Russia marches to the border with Poland would that even enter the equation.
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The fact that nuclear war was even brought up is concerning.
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Russia wasn't very sure about that and until now and still the U.S. can only speak for itself there are other countries around.
Who knows what France or the UK will do.
 
DucknCover said:
Russia wasn't very sure about that and until now and still the U.S. can only speak for itself there are other countries around.
Who knows what France or the UK will do.
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France and UK are even less inclined to use nukes for Ukraine.
 
Texasryan said:
I agree to a certain extent, I honestly don’t believe that they’re lobbing threats back and forth. But rather talking to each other in a serious manner such as, “look, we can’t go to war. Nuclear war is not an option” Russia also made the comment about how would the US feel if they put offensive weapons on US Borders. Biden responded with no one will win a nuclear war.

So I don’t think these are threats but rather what you said of bringing people back to earth and making them understand the severity and honestly, some of the good points Russia makes regarding its safety. (Don’t judge me lol)

Another article on TASS stated that this was a good way for Putin to find out the ways the talks would potentially go. They said it looked good rather than some that are going to be almost impossible to agree on. So I think we’re making some progress in the right direction. Slowly.
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That’s the whole thing we do not have any offensive missiles near Russia, zip, nada. Putin is using the SN-3 land based interceptor system as his basis for that statement. He says you can just put an offensive Tomahawk missile in it real quick, which is some cockamamie crap his Generals say can be done which is flat wrong. They are not the same launchers!!

However, not until recently has Putins bitch been somewhat of a fact. The new LRASM missile can now be shot out of the Mark41 can and that little dirty bird has a 1000 mile range and 1000 pound gift basket.

The LRASM-XR is looking to be AGM-129 with a conventional warhead, but not ready until 2024 you say? See how the contractors milk I mean EXTORT money from us taxpayers???

They say they are working on designing this
en.m.wikipedia.org

AGM-181 LRSO - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

en.m.wikipedia.org

AGM-129 ACM - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
Wow, look how fast I designed it 😆. The same company pulling out the same Fing blueprints and milking the machine for hundreds of millions in design cost. I can’t wait for a Democrat Senator to bring this gem up on the floor and kill the whole dam system as usual leaving us with nothing because the jerks got greedy….

They should make them build us a few hundred and then not pay for 20 of them as punishment
,after we get them.
 
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