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DEFCON 4 | Europe Crisis | December 2021

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Train said:
Is there any confirmation on these? Forgive me but I’m hesitant to believe a couple of random tweets that provide no source
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Here first thing I've come across:
www.theglobeandmail.com

Ukraine’s Defence Minister urges military support from Canada, U.S. and Britain - even if it’s outside NATO

Reznikov tells The Globe a ‘quick response’ is necessary to deter Russia’s Putin from invading because ‘it will be too late after’
www.theglobeandmail.com www.theglobeandmail.com

Read the article. Matches Rage & ABS tweets. My question is will Britain, US, & Canada accept and move in troops? That is the red line, that's pretty much the only line Putin really mentions is no regular active duty NATO troops in Ukraine period of any amount.

Best guesses is they will move in troops at least Britain will. When your invited it's hard to turn down.
 
DarkNoon said:
Here first thing I've come across:
www.theglobeandmail.com

Ukraine’s Defence Minister urges military support from Canada, U.S. and Britain - even if it’s outside NATO

Reznikov tells The Globe a ‘quick response’ is necessary to deter Russia’s Putin from invading because ‘it will be too late after’
www.theglobeandmail.com www.theglobeandmail.com

Read the article. Matches Rage & ABS tweets. My question is will Britain, US, & Canada accept and move in troops? That is the red line, that's pretty much the only line Putin really mentions is no regular active duty NATO troops in Ukraine period of any amount.

Best guesses is they will move in troops at least Britain will. When your invited it's hard to turn down.
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Ukraine, he said, needed a “quick response” from its allies that would help it address a lack of anti-aircraft missiles, modern warplanes and naval craft, as well as electronic jamming equipment. But just as important, he said, would be Canadian, U.S. and British soldiers visibly deployed to positions near the frontline.

“You have a training program with us in Ukraine. I think we can expand it. Instead of having 50 [military] instructors, send 500 instructors,” he said, referring to the 200-soldier Canadian training mission already deployed to the country. Operation Unifier, as it’s known, is headquartered in Yavoriv, in the far west of Ukraine, more than 1,000 kilometres from the Russian border.

Those troops should be deployed to places where Russia can see them, Mr. Reznikov said. “It would be nice if the Canadian instructors … would be deployed in Kharkiv, Mariupol, Kramatorsk, Odessa, and Zminiy Island,” he said, naming locations in eastern and southern Ukraine that could rapidly become frontline positions in the event of a large-scale Russian assault.

“Together with United Kingdom guys, with United States guys, in bilateral platforms, without NATO. Three flags – the flag of Canada, the flag of United States and the flag of U.K. – should be flying around these territories. It would also be a good sign for the Russians – that you are here.”
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So, not quite “please deploy your armies here” but more “send some scary looking soldiers so the Russians know we aren’t here to play.”

The difference doesn’t matter much though. As you said, NATO in Ukraine is a red line.

I can’t see the US doing anything, nor Canada really. The UK, I really don’t know. I don’t want to say yes because I live in England but the way Johnson has been acting recently makes me wonder what he’ll do.

I keep feeling as if this government is nostalgic for a bygone era, when Britain was a world power. Sending a ship through Russian waters and provoking a response, stationing an aircraft carrier in the South China Sea, sending troops to Poland and allegedly putting SOF on standby for Ukraine, etc etc. It’s all very bold and brash but I think Johnson needs to realise the empire is dead, as is its army. We do not have the ability or influence to project power the way we are trying to do. Truthfully I think he’s only doing it to try and distract from how badly his government has handled COVID-19 and Brexit. He has well and truly fucked up and now that we’re facing the possibility of another covid wave and potentially another winter lockdown, people aren’t happy.

That’s my two cents. Things aren’t great at home so they need a distraction. Whether this will be that distraction, I truly don’t know. I don’t think it will be, but we’ll see. Touchwood.

PS: if this needs moving to the other thread, go ahead
 
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Train said:
So, not quite “please deploy your armies here” but more “send some scary looking soldiers so the Russians know we aren’t here to play.”

The difference doesn’t matter much though. As you said, NATO in Ukraine is a red line.

I can’t see the US doing anything, nor Canada really. The UK, I really don’t know. I don’t want to say yes because I live in England but the way Johnson has been acting recently makes me wonder what he’ll do.

I keep feeling as if this government is nostalgic for a bygone era, when Britain was a world power. Sending a ship through Russian waters and provoking a response, stationing an aircraft carrier in the South China Sea, sending troops to Poland and allegedly putting SOF on standby for Ukraine, etc etc. It’s all very bold and brash but I think Johnson needs to realise the empire is dead, as is its army. We do not have the ability or influence to project power the way we are trying to do. Truthfully I think he’s only doing it to try and distract from how badly his government has handled COVID-19 and Brexit. He has well and truly fucked up and now that we’re facing the possibility of another covid wave and potentially another winter lockdown, people aren’t happy.

That’s my two cents. Things aren’t great at home so they need a distraction. Whether this will be that distraction, I truly don’t know. I don’t think it will be, but we’ll see. Touchwood.

PS: if this needs moving to the other thread, go ahead
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Canada has a minority government, sending soldiers to Ukraine would sign its death warrant. Opposition parties
would overthrow this government.
 
"On Friday, an Estonian Defense Forces (EDF) task force arrived in Lublin Voivodeship, Poland, to support the Polish Armed Forces in their ongoing border crisis with Belarus.

"Poland is our close ally and their border with Belarus is also our common European Union and NATO border. It is our shared responsibility to support Poland in their defense against this hybrid attack," said commander of the Estonian contingent Lt. Col. Mikk Pukk.

The task force will operate in the border region of Lublin Voivodeship in close cooperation with the Polish 18th Mechanized Division until the end of the year.

The EDF task force consists of an engineer platoon, two camera teams, a reconnaissance team and a national support element, and is manned by 74 active-duty and reserve troops and civil servants. The contingent is tasked with border building and reinforcement, observation and gathering of audio-visual material.
The task force was sent to Poland in response of Poland's request for practical assistance in dealing with the border crisis with Belarus."

news.err.ee

EDF task force arrives in Poland to support in countering hybrid attack

On Friday, an Estonian Defense Forces (EDF) task force arrived in Lublin Voivodeship, Poland, to support the Polish Armed Forces in their ongoing border crisis with Belarus.
news.err.ee news.err.ee
 
RiffRaff said:
The head of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, Denis Pushilin, said that all residents of the DPR will receive Russian citizenship.

www.kp.ru

Пушилин: все жители ДНР получат российское гражданство

Сейчас паспорта РФ получили 350 тысяч человек
www.kp.ru www.kp.ru

Crimea 2.0?
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I seen this earlier but didn't know weather to take it seriously. But more sources coming out now.

That is the step they took before Crimea. I wonder if NATO is going to send troops into Ukraine on their request to do so.
 
DEFCON Warning System said:
What else does Ukraine want Santa to bring them?
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Joke about it all you want. First time Ukraine has directly asked NATO nations to directly station troops within Ukraine even by outside of NATO means.

When a nation asks a powerful nation to invite its troops onto their soil it's usually granted if the request was made directly and publicly. Gives NATO cover to go in there not looking like war mongers because they where invited.
 
DarkNoon said:
I seen this earlier but didn't know weather to take it seriously. But more sources coming out now.

That is the step they took before Crimea. I wonder if NATO is going to send troops into Ukraine on their request to do so.
Click to expand...
This is from May 2021, I’d missed it and do t remember it posted earlier.
Russia distributing passports in the Donetsk region.

www.reuters.com

Zelenskiy: Russian passports in Donbass are a step towards 'annexation'

Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said on Thursday that Russia's issuance of its passports to residents of eastern Ukraine was the first step towards annexation of the region.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
 
DarkNoon said:
Joke about it all you want. First time Ukraine has directly asked NATO nations to directly station troops within Ukraine even by outside of NATO means.

When a nation asks a powerful nation to invite its troops onto their soil it's usually granted if the request was made directly and publicly. Gives NATO cover to go in there not looking like war mongers because they where invited.
Click to expand...
I'd like to see a media source for this rather than a tweet. I've been concerned by a lot of tweets that turned out to be false.
 
Questor213 said:
I'd like to see a media source for this rather than a tweet. I've been concerned by a lot of tweets that turned out to be false.
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I have above posted the article those tweets sourced:
DarkNoon said:
Here first thing I've come across:
www.theglobeandmail.com

Ukraine’s Defence Minister urges military support from Canada, U.S. and Britain - even if it’s outside NATO

Reznikov tells The Globe a ‘quick response’ is necessary to deter Russia’s Putin from invading because ‘it will be too late after’
www.theglobeandmail.com www.theglobeandmail.com

Read the article. Matches Rage & ABS tweets. My question is will Britain, US, & Canada accept and move in troops? That is the red line, that's pretty much the only line Putin really mentions is no regular active duty NATO troops in Ukraine period of any amount.

Best guesses is they will move in troops at least Britain will. When your invited it's hard to turn down.
Click to expand...
 
DarkNoon said:
Joke about it all you want. First time Ukraine has directly asked NATO nations to directly station troops within Ukraine even by outside of NATO means.

When a nation asks a powerful nation to invite its troops onto their soil it's usually granted if the request was made directly and publicly. Gives NATO cover to go in there not looking like war mongers because they where invited.
Click to expand...
It’s also risky by inviting them and them declining it could be embarrassment to Ukraine and demonstrating their lack of real solidarity with Ukraine.
 
Obreid said:
It’s also risky by inviting them and them declining it could be embarrassment to Ukraine and demonstrating their lack of real solidarity with Ukraine.
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Very true as well, would be check mate then... It can go either way but since NATO is being invited directly and publicly. I honestly see them going in as PR wise looks a lot better under those pretences.
 
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