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Does NATO need Turkey?

Under the North Atlantic Treaty which established NATO, there are no provisions for suspending the rights of any member state, let alone expel them. ASTO instead takes on a diplomatic approach, speaking with member states instead.

One way that a member state can be suspended is through a “Material Breach” under a separate treaty called the Vienna Convention. To qualify for suspension a state would have to:
1 - Reject the treaty not sanctioned by the present Convention
2 - Or violate a provision essential to the accomplishment of the object or purpose of the treaty

Why in the world would they not make a provision of a 3/4 vote could suspend or expel a state from NATO. I'm guessing they are so integrated with each country and they know their operations and secrets that if a state would be suspended or expelled then those things would fall into the enemies hands.

I'm just wonder how much of a snuggle buddy is Turkey with Russia.
 
Personally, I think that nato has outlived its usefulness. I mean seriously---stop and think about it. Do you honestly think that Germany would sacrifice Frankfurt for NYC???? When the red light is blinking and it comes down to the nitty gritty, I just don't see the agreement coming through. Do you really think that turkey would sacrifice Istanbul for Moscow??
 
TCharley300 said:
Personally, I think that nato has outlived its usefulness.
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Don't look over at Eastern Europe people, nothing happening there, Eastern Europe is totally safe right now and doesn't need NATO... Right... 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
TCharley300 said:
Germany would sacrifice Frankfurt for NYC????
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Would be the other way around. Would be "Would the US sacrifice NYC for Frankfurt"...

Europe's security is at immediate risk not the US. Germany would be the one being attacked. Yes US would, we don't have a choice. I.e have bases/troops/hardware there. No getting out of it if it happens US absolutely will be dragged in, no if, ands, or, buts about it.
TCharley300 said:
turkey would sacrifice Istanbul for Moscow??
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Given their history absolutely. Turkey would come crying to NATO for article 5 so fast it wouldn't even be funny.
 
DarkNoon said:
Would be the other way around. Europe's security is at immediate risk not the US. Germany would be the one being attacked. Yes US would, we don't have a choice. I.e have bases/troops/hardware there. No getting out of it if it happens US absolutely be dragged in, no if, ands, or, buts about it.
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That's not the question, though.

If the situation was reversed, if Europe was safe and secure and had no real threat from an enemy, but the U.S. was threatened, would Germany step up to bat and be willing to sacrifice Berlin to save Los Angeles?

Seriously, I have doubts about a number of NATO countries who would.
 
DEFCON Warning System said:
That's not the question, though.

If the situation was reversed, if Europe was safe and secure and had no real threat from an enemy, but the U.S. was threatened, would Germany step up to bat and be willing to sacrifice Berlin to save Los Angeles?

Seriously, I have doubts about a number of NATO countries who would.
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Not going to contemplate somthing that has zero basis in our reality, sorry if I sound like a bitch.😅 That simply isn't the world we live in. It's the US who would have to stick their neck out. Not Europe.

I agree that a lot of NATO members likly wouldn't stick their neck out for us like we do for them. But luckily we live in a world where we don't have to depend on them like that and we lead the charge.
 
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Now, let's look at the real reason behind this stuff. It's something called the Military Industrial Complex, that General Eisenhower warned on his last speech or farewell to the nation. Well, one thing for sure, America has certainly stuck its neck out one too many times. This time, it's going to hurt us and in and very big way. Don't believe me?? just look at prices, look at fuel shortages, food shortages, lack of medication and general medical supplies. I could go further, but there's no need to. Granted in earlier years, yes,, nato was needed. No doubt.

If you really want to see the condition of the Russian military, (not even talking about the Ukraine situation) just observe their parade this year and then compare it to previous years. Yes, Russia has gotten the absolute crap beaten out of them. But, if you notice the age of the equipment, you'll also see that most is quite old. It's been smoking mirrors for a long time, but with their condition of the general military, it makes me wonder about their nuclear capabilities--in reality.

Putin is running out of options, which makes him even more dangerous, because he could easily do something stupid. Then, it's game over--not only for them, but for everyone.
 
TCharley300 said:
Now, let's look at the real reason behind this stuff. It's something called the Military Industrial Complex, that General Eisenhower warned on his last speech or farewell to the nation. Well, one thing for sure, America has certainly stuck its neck out one too many times. This time, it's going to hurt us and in and very big way. Don't believe me?? just look at prices, look at fuel shortages, food shortages, lack of medication and general medical supplies. I could go further, but there's no need to. Granted in earlier years, yes,, nato was needed. No doubt.

If you really want to see the condition of the Russian military, (not even talking about the Ukraine situation) just observe their parade this year and then compare it to previous years. Yes, Russia has gotten the absolute crap beaten out of them. But, if you notice the age of the equipment, you'll also see that most is quite old. It's been smoking mirrors for a long time, but with their condition of the general military, it makes me wonder about their nuclear capabilities--in reality.

Putin is running out of options, which makes him even more dangerous, because he could easily do something stupid. Then, it's game over--not only for them, but for everyone.
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Yeah they managed to get through the parade without a T-14 breaking down in front of the viewing stand.
Your measuring a countries militarily power based on parades for plutocrats?
 
Guest said:
Then it has outlived it’s usefulness and you should advocate the US getting out forthwith and sensation of all military personnel and supplies to Europe.
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I'm not advocating anything. I'm telling you what would happen. What people want to do about that fact is up to them.
 
Late to the party but…
For all the positioning for or against NATO and the fidelity of its members in adversity, Article 5 has only been invoked once and it was to support the United States after September 11, 2001.

Some of the first Aircraft patrolling the US that day were Dutch, who had Immediately crossed the Atlantic and began to patrol North America including New York City. I was in the military (pilot) and FLYING that morning and know this for a fact.
 
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