"End of the world" in September

[Ketatrypt]

....

AND

Deuteronomy 30:19New International Version (NIV)

19 This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live

God clearly says He (I) gives us a choice, and by definition, the choices were created.

Hey!!!! I have used quotes out of Deuteronomy before, and you called me out on it.. Just isn't fair to use what fits your agenda, and omit the bad things.

As for uncontrolled sin, well, if I built a house and it collapses, I can blame gravity right? Not like I can control gravity! [hint: Engineers build failsafes, and god, being all knowing should know how to build things with fail-safes, just like we build them (and we don't even have the 'all knowing' powers of god). It takes more then 1 failure to fault any sort of modern system.]

Also, remember, nothing is inherently right/wrong.. Countless nature vs nurture experiments have scientifically proven that over and over again. (only exceptions to this rule are biological functions, such as eating, sleeping, sex, etc)

Oh, and as far as the 'end of the world' theory goes, well.... Even a broken clock is right twice a day. One of these days[years] its sure to happen (as everything with a beginning is sure to have an 'end'). And like flies to honey, people will come forward, and admit they foresaw the event happening. Just like they do in financial crises. Every year I have heard new theories about how the world is going to end. And every new year, I get a good chuckle out of the people spreading their 'info' as a cover for selling their 'special' snake oil.

Did they actually know? Well, science doesn't understand the brain well enough yet to figure out how exactly thoughts work.. Even though we are just biological computers, it will be some time yet before we decipher our 'code' to the point where we understand how thoughts are formed. Although it will happen sooner or later, (so long we don't kill each other beforehand in some sort of ego-stroking penis measuring contest). I just hope it happens within my lifetime, as I would love to know how exactly it happens.

 

[mathewsman06]

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And He said it was very good. When He created Adam, He made Eve for him. God told Adam and Eve to multiply and replenish the earth. We were in that blessing too. God never created sin. What He made was pure, holy and beautiful. When Adam fell, we all fell in Adam. God decided right then what He was going to due...destroy the devil and sin, to give us hope. When we choose to sin we hurt our creator God. God made a way back to Him through His Son Jesus. Why in the world would God create sin when He hates it? Why would Jesus die that agonising death if God loved us in sin? God loves who He created us to be....pure and holy not what we made ourselves in sin. Jesus was the only one who could make atonement for all of us. His death, burial and bodily resurrection is the truth. When Jesus became sin for us, who knew no sin is because only Jesus could make restitution for us. That is what God decided right then( Genessis chapter 3). Jesus washed us clean in His blood if we except What He did for us by faith. Also, Jesus said in the last days there would be mockers. I see a lot of that going on with people.

 

[ArmyATC]

Hey!!!! I have used quotes out of Deuteronomy before, and you called me out on it.. Just isn't fair to use what fits your agenda, and omit the bad things.

As for uncontrolled sin, well, if I built a house and it collapses, I can blame gravity right? Not like I can control gravity! [hint: Engineers build failsafes, and god, being all knowing should know how to build things with fail-safes, just like we build them (and we don't even have the 'all knowing' powers of god). It takes more then 1 failure to fault any sort of modern system.]

Oh, and as far as the 'end of the world' theory goes, well.... Even a broken clock is right twice a day. One of these days[years] its sure to happen (as everything with a beginning is sure to have an 'end'). And like flies to honey, people will come forward, and admit they foresaw the event happening. Just like they do in financial crises.

Did they actually know? Well, science doesn't understand the brain well enough yet to figure out how exactly thoughts work.. Even though we are just biological computers, it will be some time yet before we decipher our 'code' to the point where we understand how thoughts are formed. Although it will happen sooner or later, (so long we don't kill each other beforehand in some sort of ego-stroking penis measuring contest). I just hope it happens within my lifetime, as I would love to know how exactly it happens.

If God built fail safes, then no one would die under your logic, right?

Never said end of the world, that's the OPs thread. I said it is being reported that September involves some historic events. I specifically said it is not my job to speculate as to their meaning. If you read my post, I never once mentioned 'end of the world', as that is speculating.

And my belief is that if anyone thinks they have the capacity to think and reason like God, well the fallacy is evident. There are scientific, repeatable, 'laws' of nature. But ask yourself 'Am I free to build my house any way I chose?' if the answer is yes, then God didn't make you build it. You chose how, when, where to build it.

If one believes the laws of gravity override the builders choice on how to best construct it, then I ask why aren't all homes exactly the same. And an argument about what part of the Bible I feel is relevant to the topic, if you can quote Scripture that is more relevant, then I welcome the debate.

But to insinuate the entire Book of Dueteronomy is off limits to me because you once quoted it, and to not understand that the Bible actually changes topics, even within Chapters, is harsh. I guess under that reasoning, the Bible should just repeat 'Redrum' from start to finish.

When one actually reads the Bible, there are parts that are not 'PC', and there are parts about warnings, love, history, prophecy, mystery, etc. To boil the Bible down to the 'good' parts and the 'bad' parts is a very subjective, juvenile, way of understanding it. 'Dr. Suess' has more layers to it than 'omitting the bad parts to contrive an agenda.'

But if you are still struggling with the concept that God is sovereign and His ways and thoughts are infinitesimally above our pea brains, as I have seen many deem certain verses 'good' or 'bad', then logically ask yourself, "Do I reason like Almighty God and hold Him accountable if something breaks (completely ignoring there is evil in the world constantly interacting and affecting one's free will), well that's an extreme oversimplification.

If you are honest, and not bitter, and actually believe there is a God, then the answer is evident. Peace be with you.

 

[Ketatrypt]

Hey!!!! I have used quotes out of Deuteronomy before, and you called me out on it.. Just isn't fair to use what fits your agenda, and omit the bad things.

As for uncontrolled sin, well, if I built a house and it collapses, I can blame gravity right? Not like I can control gravity! [hint: Engineers build failsafes, and god, being all knowing should know how to build things with fail-safes, just like we build them (and we don't even have the 'all knowing' powers of god). It takes more then 1 failure to fault any sort of modern system.]

Oh, and as far as the 'end of the world' theory goes, well.... Even a broken clock is right twice a day. One of these days[years] its sure to happen (as everything with a beginning is sure to have an 'end'). And like flies to honey, people will come forward, and admit they foresaw the event happening. Just like they do in financial crises.

Did they actually know? Well, science doesn't understand the brain well enough yet to figure out how exactly thoughts work.. Even though we are just biological computers, it will be some time yet before we decipher our 'code' to the point where we understand how thoughts are formed. Although it will happen sooner or later, (so long we don't kill each other beforehand in some sort of ego-stroking penis measuring contest). I just hope it happens within my lifetime, as I would love to know how exactly it happens.

If God built fail safes, then no one would die under your logic, right?

Never said end of the world, that's the OPs thread. I said it is being reported that September involves some historic events. I specifically said it is not my job to speculate as to their meaning. If you read my post, I never once mentioned 'end of the world', as that is speculating.

And my belief is that if anyone thinks they have the capacity to think and reason like God, well the fallacy is evident. There are scientific, repeatable, 'laws' of nature. But ask yourself 'Am I free to build my house any way I chose?' if the answer is yes, then God didn't make you build it. You chose how, when, where to build it.

If one believes the laws of gravity override the builders choice on how to best construct it, then I ask why aren't all homes exactly the same. And an argument about what part of the Bible I feel is relevant to the topic, if you can quote Scripture that is more relevant, then I welcome the debate.

But to insinuate the entire Book of Deuteronomy is off limits to me because you once quoted it, and to not understand that the Bible actually changes topics, even within Chapters, is harsh. I guess under that reasoning, the Bible should just repeat 'Redrum' from start to finish.

When one actually reads the Bible, there are parts that are not 'PC', and there are parts about warnings, love, history, prophecy, mystery, etc. To boil the Bible down to the 'good' parts and the 'bad' parts is a very subjective, juvenile, way of understanding it. 'Dr. Suess' has more layers to it than 'omitting the bad parts to contrive an agenda.'

But if you are still struggling with the concept that God is sovereign and His ways and thoughts are infinitesimally above our pea brains, as I have seen many deem certain verses 'good' or 'bad', then logically ask yourself, "Do I reason like Almighty God and hold Him accountable if something breaks (completely ignoring there is evil in the world constantly interacting and affecting one's free will), well that's an extreme oversimplification.

If you are honest, and not bitter, and actually believe there is a God, then the answer is evident. Peace be with you.

So then you do admit that you do pick and choose which parts of the bible to use to suit your (don't mean you personally, I mean the "faith" in its entirety [look up the definition of faith when you get a chance].. Please don't think that I am picking on any person in particular) own agenda? Because to me that is what you just said. Otherwise, yous' would be stoning rebellious children to death, as the scripture instructs. [Deuteronomy 21:18-21] (that particular verse seems quite definitive, as there isn't too many ways you could interpret stoning a child to death.)

To the next issue, being fail-safes.. There is a difference between fail-safe and fail-proof. the mammalian body (not just humans) is built with many fail safe measures. For example; getting a fever has nothing to do with the virus itself. Getting a 'fever' is the mammalian way to fight the virus. (body heats up, produces a surge of anti-bodies, and literally 'fights' the virus, via a war of attrition in cell vs cell combat, within our body. If it wasn't for the fail safes that evolution has 'programmed' into us, mammals would be getting killed all the time by the slightest hint of the common cold. If god could program us to fight things as complex as viruses, why couldn't he make a standard fail-safe that prevents us from sinning? Many animals have been 'programmed' to have much more complex behaviors without any form of nurture, such as migrating thousands of miles (and back)... So why would he not make some sort of natural instinct to deter us from sinning?

As for the rest, I was not directing at you... which is why I specifically started a new paragraph, and also, specifically started the paragraph with "as far as the 'end of the world' theory"

However, if people really don't like what I am suggesting, they don't have to read it. (free, uncensored speech and all, same with the freedom to be, and express gay/lez etc) No need to get all emotional over some comments from an anonymous poster on a forum.

 

[DirtyDevil69]

Too many words...

 

[ArmyATC]

So then you do admit that you do pick and choose which parts of the bible to use to suit your (don't mean you personally, I mean the "faith" in its entirety [look up the definition of faith when you get a chance].. Please don't think that I am picking on any person in particular) own agenda? Because to me that is what you just said. Otherwise, yous' would be stoning rebellious children to death, as the scripture instructs. [Deuteronomy 21:18-21] (that particular verse seems quite definitive, as there isn't too many ways you could interpret stoning a child to death.)

To the next issue, being fail-safes.. There is a difference between fail-safe and fail-proof. the mammalian body (not just humans) is built with many fail safe measures. For example; getting a fever has nothing to do with the virus itself. Getting a 'fever' is the mammalian way to fight the virus. (body heats up, produces a surge of anti-bodies, and literally 'fights' the virus, via a war of attrition in cell vs cell combat, within our body. If it wasn't for the fail safes that evolution has 'programmed' into us, mammals would be getting killed all the time by the slightest hint of the common cold. If god could program us to fight things as complex as viruses, why couldn't he make a standard fail-safe that prevents us from sinning? Many animals have been 'programmed' to have much more complex behaviors without any form of nurture, such as migrating thousands of miles (and back)... So why would he not make some sort of natural instinct to deter us from sinning?

As for the rest, I was not directing at you... which is why I specifically started a new paragraph, and also, specifically started the paragraph with "as far as the 'end of the world' theory"

By definition one must 'pick and choose' sections of the Bible when discussing a particular Subject. It's the context, intent, history, God's omnipotence, and a multitude of factors that apply to that verse. Can you verify these 'children' were 100% human? Can you verify that there was a sad reason that God commanded it? Do you know the mind of God and 100
% of the reason He made such a decree? Example, and it's very oversimplified, but if you knew for a 100% fact that Hitler was going to cause the deaths of over 50 million civilians, military, babies, women, disabled. etc... Would you kill him at birth?

Just like a teacher must design a syllabus when teaching subjects. Why the double standard? When discussing Algebra, a teacher must teach the basics before moving on to the Quadratic Equations, no? Why talk about animals in the context of mathematics?

'Pick and choose' regarding Scripture implies to me, as you said, only choosing the 'good' verses and omitting the 'bad'; however I admit I may be speculating your intent. I have nothing against you. But I have heard the argument 1000's of times that the 'bad' ( i.e. stoning children) as an excuse to totally dismiss the entire Bible.

One has to agree that God is Sovereign and loving on faith, or it does appear that way. Look what is happening every day in this world that is exponentially 'bad'. If one claims to know the mind and reasoning of God's purposes, they cannot realistically know all the facts, the plan, etc. First there must be a belief in God, and by stating you refer to Him, I assume you at least acknowledge the possibility.

And ask yourself do you know the difference between right and wrong. God did put a natural instinct in everyone to deter us from sinning. Ask yourself honestly if you know when you know you did something wrong? Is it instinct to kill someone? Is it instinct to steal? While some have had their consciences seared by repeatedly choosing evil, or otherwise, it seems arrogant to blame God for sin.

For whatever reason the Creator of the Universe allows sin, who are we to question His motives. Sin, as Jesus pointed out, is no humans fault. It gives us the choice to glorify God or go along with sin. Do you honestly feel you do not have a total choice in going one way or the other? Is God responsible for the choices we make?

Could He have done it different, yes. But, just as in human affairs, evidence must be presented to determine if one is guilty or innocent. All criminals choose to commit crime. How could one be judged? And God, being omnipotent, allows mercy for true mitigating circumstances.

Now the word everyone hates (ask why?), Jesus. Everyone sins, like you said, albeit due to not having some form of regulator to prevent it as I understand you. So I agree we all sin, I just disagree that God just said "Oh, we'll.. Too bad."

TDLR:

So why would he not make some sort of natural instinct to deter us from sinning?

To respond to your question, He did. His Name is Jesus and the 'natural instinct' is The Holy Spirit. Now the next question is always 'what about those before Jesus?'. Scripture says during his death, He descended into hell and released the captives and now holds the keys to the Abyss, meaning He rescued the righteous (Maybe God seperated them while waiting to avoid torment, but who am I to try and figure out God's reasoning?) But now Jesus controls who is cast into darkness.

Thanks for being an honorable person and avoiding ad hominem attacks. May God Bless you.

 

[Ketatrypt]

Man I have better things to do then attack the person behind the idea.. Ive seen enough messengers shot to know there will just be another one the next day with the same message. I have learned to 'hate the game, not the player', and its much easier to tell those messengers to eff off with their junkmail, then it is to drag and hide their bodies every day, just to do it all over again tomorrow..

But really, I respect you, (as everyone else here), and love to get into descussions like this. Id hate to ruin it by throwing petty insults around.

 

[ArmyATC]

Man I have better things to do then attack the person behind the idea.. Ive seen enough messengers shot to know there will just be another one the next day with the same message. I have learned to 'hate the game, not the player', and its much easier to tell those messengers to eff off with their junkmail, then it is to drag and hide their bodies every day, just to do it all over again tomorrow..

But really, I respect you, (as everyone else here), and love to get into descussions like this. Id hate to ruin it by throwing petty insults around.

Like i said I have nothing personal against you. I called you an honorable person and specifically praised you for not making ad hominem attacks. I even asked that God may Bless you.

If people are PMing you dishonorably over our discussion, which is I think is what you are saying, then shame on them!

Everyone is entitled to believe as they wish and express it, especially as respectful as you have. That has been what KM and I have been discussing - free will. It is God's gift, and it is to all. So I will not debate this if it is bringing suffering or hostilities to you on your PMs. And as for those doing the hostile PMs, if that's the case, if you are not speaking the truth IN LOVE, then what's the point?

At least KM had the courage and honor to even speak up, out of our thousands of members. It would be unwise to not make others feel free to engage in a truly respectful discussion about God on one of the VERY few places we still can.

Peace KM.

 

[Ketatrypt]

Man I have better things to do then attack the person behind the idea.. Ive seen enough messengers shot to know there will just be another one the next day with the same message. I have learned to 'hate the game, not the player', and its much easier to tell those messengers to eff off with their junkmail, then it is to drag and hide their bodies every day, just to do it all over again tomorrow..

But really, I respect you, (as everyone else here), and love to get into descussions like this. Id hate to ruin it by throwing petty insults around.

Like i said I have nothing personal against you. I called you an honorable person and specifically praised you for not making ad hominem attacks. I even asked that God may Bless you.

If people are PMing you dishonorably over our discussion, which is I think is what you are saying, then shame on them!

Everyone is entitled to believe as they wish and express it, especially as respectful as you have. That has been what KM and I have been discussing - free will. It is God's gift, and it is to all. So I will not debate this if it is bringing suffering or hostilities to you on your PMs. And as for those doing the hostile PMs, if that's the case, if you are not speaking the truth IN LOVE, then what's the point?

At least KM had the courage and honor to even speak up, out of our thousands of members. It would be unwise to not make others feel free to engage in a truly respectful discussion about God on one of the VERY few places we still can.

Peace KM.

Nah nah nothing like that.. I was just trying to be funny.. You could almost say I.... Murdered that one

... Ok I'll stop now