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Joint Statement by 5 Powers (Split from DEFCON 4 - Europe Crisis - January 2022)

rudemarine said:
They have exactly what they need for a first strike to take out any chance we have at hitting back until our four remaining deployed subs launch.

It would be nothing but a revenge strike at that point. Our nation would be completely crippled with tens of millions dead and Russia might even be able to find and sink our boomers before they could launch.
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Explain exactly how this would be executed.
 
Independence & Freedom or give me death,... occupation isn't a option for any nuclear nation.
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Why do some people fear occupation more than death?
Millions of people live under the boot of other nations and I don't see them commit mass suicide.
Death is the last way out of misery.
 
It makes me laugh at joint statements like this. It's a bit like the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, of which India, Pakistan, North Korea and maybe Israel are not a party. These 4 countries are not obliged to respect this treaty, they have not signed. It's complete rubbish.
 
RiffRaff said:
MAD only works if the leaders of all countries possessing nuclear weapons are rational. During the mid-20th century, we were fortunate that this was the case, more or less. Now, we have delusional megalomaniacs and theological fanatics in possession of these weapons. Rationality is no longer protecting us - only luck is keeping the nuclear genie in the bottle right now. Make no mistake: nuclear weapons will be used in combat within our lifetime. It is a statistical certainty. The only questions are when, where, who, and how many? Maybe that's what it will take for the human species to finally wake up. But I doubt it.
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In order to save this thread from getting wildly off topic. (This thread is just about a joint statement from nuclear nations to prevent conflict. Not about nuclear weapons themselves.) I have created a Poll/Thread about nuclear war/weapons souly:

POLL: Are You "For" or "Against" Nuclear Weapons

This seems like a fun conversation. Please elaborate why you are for, against, or just having selective nations having nuclear weapons.
community.defconwarningsystem.com

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Saguenay said:
It makes me laugh at joint statements like this. It's a bit like the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, of which India, Pakistan, North Korea and maybe Israel are not a party. These 4 countries are not obliged to respect this treaty, they have not signed. It's complete rubbish.
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Yes this statement was just a big waste of time like trying to teach a troll online why they are wrong, loss causes. All they are trying to do is to prevent conflict. Many ways to do that besides the heaps of useless empty words.
 
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A lot of what is being stated within these respective articles isn't a ploy to "read deeper" into all of the subtle guidelines. While yes, the smaller nuclear powers aren't considered on this. But they want to begin disarming the world and leaving only the few RU/CH/US/UK/FR to have these nuclear weapons. Also, this is a big statement considering that it was put forth by Russia and signed on. You all may think this is a ridiculous statement, however, this is viewed as a good thing considering 5 countries with vastly different political structures agreed on something for a change rather than just talked at each other and threatened.
 
Obreid said:
Explain exactly how this would be executed.
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Their Ballistic missile subs right after a blinding attack by their cruise missile boats off the coast. 8 minutes is all the time Biden will have to get our bombers and missiles out of their silos and away from the nuclear blast.

Our bombers will never get off the ground in that period of time, they are just too slow and only the B-2s and a few B-52s are loaded with nukes ready to launch.

If our ICBMs get caught, which they probably will in a surprise first strike, only our four deployed boomers can hit back if our overseas allies don’t. They probably won’t risk getting hit themselves as they know it means certain destruction for their nation.

Our fighters overseas in say Germany and Turkey will probably grab what B-61s they can and try to hit back , if they are even allowed to by those part time Allies.

The military experts know that Russia has a lot more than they have told us by how many times they have spouted off at the mouth when they were pissed, like when Trump knew they were hiding nukes after being briefed by the CIA. Trump pulled us out of the treaty and they let the cat out of the bag.

After the initial inspection for the first Start treaty we found they had around 400 undisclosed missiles. Today the estimates by highly educated Military officers is that they have a thousand or more deployed weapons systems than they disclosed to come up with the 2500 warhead number years ago.

Some of those are the new systems they have deployed that caused Trump to bail on the INF treaty. The guy who claimed we are at DEFCON 3 has wrote very good books on the subject and he most definitely lays it out. I posted the evidence for it here in that thread for all to read.
 
rudemarine said:
Their Ballistic missile subs right after a blinding attack by their cruise missile boats off the coast. 8 minutes is all the time Biden will have to get our bombers and missiles out of their silos and away from the nuclear blast.
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You're close on your timing. Biden will have approximately 6 to 8 minutes to get airborne before DC gets hit. He can still order our missiles and bombers launched while he's mobile. It will still take much longer than that for sub-launched missiles to reach our missile silos and bomber bases in the middle of the country.
 
DEFCON Warning System said:
This all kind of presumes an out-of-the-blue attack. In a major crisis, the President likely will not be at the White House.
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Yes. Any sign of trouble he won't be there. Which a out of the blue attack won't happen without pretext or lead up.

Putin isn't going to wake up one day and order to commit mass suicide on his nation just because he is cranky. THERE will be a lead up or pretext to such a first strike weather we are aware of such a lead up or not.
 
You're close on your timing. Biden will have approximately 6 to 8 minutes to get airborne before DC gets hit. He can still order our missiles and bombers launched while he's mobile. It will still take much longer than that for sub-launched missiles to reach our missile silos and bomber bases in the middle of the country.
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Perhaps this is also outdated already, battle satellites can, once they are in the right orbit, instantly attack with an emp or lasers and it's missiles or kinetic weapons could reach the target in 1-2 minutes which depends on the distance.
Example:
A satellite 1000 km above the ground can attack with hypersonic missiles at 27 km/s in 37 seconds.
A satellite 500 km above the ground can attack with hypersonic missiles at 27 km/s in 18.5 seconds.
 
DucknCover said:
Perhaps this is also outdated already, battle satellites can, once they are in the right orbit, instantly attack with an emp or lasers and it's missiles or kinetic weapons could reach the target in 1-2 minutes which depends on the distance.
Example:
A satellite 1000 km above the ground can attack with hypersonic missiles at 27 km/s in 37 seconds.
A satellite 500 km above the ground can attack with hypersonic missiles at 27 km/s in 18.5 seconds.
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This is why weapons in space are outlawed.

Of course, this doesn't mean that they aren't up there.
 
This is why weapons in space are outlawed.

Of course, this doesn't mean that they aren't up there.
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Only America and EU has adhered to this, until they figured it out lately.
So the "Space Force" was founded after all.
 
DucknCover said:
Only America and EU has adhered to this, until they figured it out lately.
So the "Space Force" was founded after all.
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Provide proof that other countries have weapons platforms in orbit or I'm removing your post.
 
Weapons in space are such a new and nebulous area.
Are they defense oriented only and Does that defense include not just protecting coms and GPS capability. Or does it include attacking an adversarial nations comm and navigational capability.

Does in mean launching kinetic weapons from space but conversely allow microwave and energy weapons used against space based platforms but not ground based targets.

Does it prohibit ground based energy and kinetic attacks on another’s satellites.

It a can of worms like any military application technology. It’s open it’s not going back in the can.
Don’t like it, can’t help it, can’t stop it
 
RiffRaff said:
You're close on your timing. Biden will have approximately 6 to 8 minutes to get airborne before DC gets hit. He can still order our missiles and bombers launched while he's mobile. It will still take much longer than that for sub-launched missiles to reach our missile silos and bomber bases in the middle of the country.
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It’s 8 minutes after detection not pushing the button, they will be hauling ass to their targets by then. I got that information from a few documentaries on the subject who got that information from the military or FEMA.

The detection they will have today is likely to be the radar being destroyed by cruise missiles. We were better protected in the 60s then we are now.

Where I live we had a radar net right on the shore looking out to sea, to spot Soviet cruise missiles heading to McDill. They removed that thing years ago.

Then again the Coast Guard in Clearwater Fl, can see a boat flare shot up from a boat in distress a long way out there so they obviously have something looking. Will it detect a cruise missile, doubtful but a launch of one from a sub close in sure but Russia will launch theirs from 500 miles away.

If we can’t protect our own bases in Iraq from Iranian ballistic missiles let alone Saudi refineries from their drones we probably can’t stop the most advanced cruise missiles.
 
DucknCover said:
Perhaps this is also outdated already, battle satellites can, once they are in the right orbit, instantly attack with an emp or lasers and it's missiles or kinetic weapons could reach the target in 1-2 minutes which depends on the distance.
Example:
A satellite 1000 km above the ground can attack with hypersonic missiles at 27 km/s in 37 seconds.
A satellite 500 km above the ground can attack with hypersonic missiles at 27 km/s in 18.5 seconds.
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And little grey aliens with no sex organs are real!! 😂

The only logical weapon in space fires Tungsten rods down onto a target. It’s called the Rods from God. That’s the only one I have ever heard of and the only one that could exist today because you don’t need anything other than that to utterly destroy anything on the ground. The velocity alone from a Tungsten rod impacting the ground will wipe out anything with just re-entry speeds. No rocket needed.
 
RiffRaff said:
Provide proof that other countries have weapons platforms in orbit or I'm removing your post.
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It is believed that both China and Russia are covertly placing weapons in space. This is why people are banging on the doors of the US to boost up their defenses against this potential threat.
 
DucknCover said:
Why do some people fear occupation more than death?
Millions of people live under the boot of other nations and I don't see them commit mass suicide.
Death is the last way out of misery.
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Because you can’t comprehend how bad life can get under a regime such as NK. Many have risked death and many women have fled to China just to be used as Prostitutes to live a better life and still are considered less than a dog. Dogs are fed better than Koreans who flee to China!!!

They have done this just so they could eat something rather than be given a frozen potato or hunt for bugs to eat.

Yeah every American will fight to the death to avoid that BS!!!
 
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