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Mobilization of Russian Economy & Military

Saguenay said:
Unfortunately, none of the parties seem to want peace, the escalation continues day by day.
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Respectfully peace is not always achieved through appeasement. Of course policy decisions can be wrong. A nation might give another no choice but to escalate. Or a nations policies can be too vague and week to dissuade an adversary.
You know this can go both ways and often does.
The question is then how would appeasement and deescalation work.
You argue for it and that is fine.
How would it work what steps what would be the outcome.
You have a blank canvas
 
Saguenay said:
The west must offer Vladimir Putin a way out, even if he doesn't deserve it, but his people do.
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As long as that way out doesn't involve Ukraine ceding land to Russia. Why should Russia be rewarded?
 
Saguenay said:
The west must offer Vladimir Putin a way out, even if he doesn't deserve it, but his people do. A 3rd World War
would be terrible for all of humanity.
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I can agree but what would that way out be? Is it one he would take. Is it one the west can afford to take.
I personally have vacillated about letting the pre war status of the breakaway regions and Crimea remain independent or part of Russia. Currently if it could secure a ending of hostilities and a hopefully permanent peace I would support it.
But 1 I don’t know if Ukraine would support it. And 2 I have my doubts Russia would respect it down the road.

I haven’t seen any hope at ending the conflict in anything remotely close to a semipermanent solution.
Ukraine and the west are at fault for calling for the return of all Ukrainian territory, they say. Maybe true, I’ll allow that.
But Russia reportedly issuing Russian passports to Ukrainians who live in Kiev Russia is just as inflammatory.

I seriously doubt there are more than a few Ukrainians who believe a partition peace will work. Do not forget their history with Russia it is long and has some very bloody chapters.

This is why I suppose I argue to stay the course as far as backing Ukraine and possibly becoming more involved.
Even if Russia and Putin were offered a way out do you honestly believe it would be enough to coax them to accept. Or prevent the future shedding of blood?

I haven’t seen anything from a Russian official that indicates anything but a ending of western military aid to Ukraine and the replacement of the government in Kiev with a Russian backed gov. As well as the only security guarantees available to Ukraine can only come from Russia.
Is that the carrot you are suggesting the west must offer?

Is that what the Ukrainian people deserve and what actions from Ukrainians do you see that indicate they are ready to make that concession.

This is my rational for engaging the conflict decisively and with a complete unified ability from nato and the EU to bring the fighting to an end.
 
Obreid said:
This is my rational for engaging the conflict decisively and with unified means to nato and the EU to bring the fighting to an end.
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Alright, but you'll have to expect the possible consequences, live through radiation and get some nukes on your head. I find you very brave!
 
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Saguenay said:
The west must offer Vladimir Putin a way out, even if he doesn't deserve it, but his people do. A 3rd World War
would be terrible for all of humanity.
Click to expand...
How about 20 years of pineapple
Enemas done by a Ukrainian lottery system? It would be controlled by Ukraine and obviously rigged so everyone shoves one up his ass daily.
 
Saguenay said:
Alright, but you'll have to expect the possible consequences, live through radiation and get some nukes on your head. I find you very brave!
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I’m not saying diplomacy should not be working fervently behind the scenes to conclude this peacefully.
There is always the public or known response.
Do you honestly believe Russia (Putin) would accept a peace deal with the breakaways and Crimea remaining independent. Without a Russian controls government in Kiev?
If you do how do we get there.
If you don’t then you either support Russia in using force to subjugate an independent people or it doesn’t matter enough to risk the confrontation.

History has always shown that force used wisely is the only thing that quells inflicted force.
The force can be economic military diplomatic or public shaming.
I do not believe Putin and consequently Russia will ever be satisfied with this till Ukraine is under the control of Russia completely. And that by the old definition of things is colonialism.
 
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