New York City Begins Nuclear Attack Preparedness P.S.A

[REALHumanRights]

The onus is on the citizenry to be educated and involved enough they don’t need the government to hold their hands.
All of the information is out there and no one should be allowed to say “I didn’t know”

The world changes, and has certainly grown more complex for the average citizen to know the facts, especially in our wildly evolving 21st century. Would we have expected U.S. founding fathers and their families to know what to do in a nuclear attack? But in the 21st century, we expect all 350,000,000 of our citizens to know. That is not reasonable. It also not reasonable to expect the relatively static form of U.S. Government to reflect the security and information needs of a modern public. There are many Americans who were not alive during 9/11/2001, let alone have education on nuclear bomb safety. A government that risks their nuclear safety, but does not honestly share the truth with them on such risk is not representative.

Over 233 years, the U.S. Government has largely remained unchanged by Constitutional law, and mainly dependent on a Constitution established in 1789, written by individuals who would seriously struggle to survive if they were brought via time-machine to our current 20th century. This failure to be flexible and evolve with the times is a major fracture for the U.S.. In the 20th century, the right of women to vote (Am 19) and revocation of state poll taxes (Am 24) went to broaden participation. But it did not alter the essential government structure. Almost all of the meaningful U.S. Constitutional changes regarding the structure of government were enacted within 100 years. Most of the U.S. Government changes (primarily for executive branch) have been to continue to misuse the Constitution, create structures without public input, and abuse the few existing laws on government expansion for an ever growing military-industrial-intelligence based oligarchy.

In the rest of the world, other major nations: USSR/Russia, PRC, Germany, Japan, France, have in fact meaningfully altered their government structures within the past century. There have even been significant government changes in the UK House of Lords in the 20th century.

 

[REALHumanRights]

Basically the PSA was either really inept attempt and educating the public or fear porn.

Or it was to change the narrative to "You got this," and avoid talking about the real consequences of nuclear war.
This idea that we are facing KT terrorist suitcase nukes is a story from 20 years ago - literally.

 

[REALHumanRights]

There are no 15 MT warheads in service anymore.

Because the USA intelligence actually know what nuclear warheads that Russia has active to use.
I have a deed to the Brooklyn Bridge to sell to anyone who really believes that.

 

[william]

There are no 15 MT warheads in service anymore. They were inefficient dinosaurs in a time when pinpoint targeting was still decades away and overkill was the best method of assuring the target was destroyed even if you missed.

Redo that same nuke map, but this time use fifteen 1 MT weapons airburst with overlapping 5 psi overpressure rings. You'll see that the damage radius and casualties increase while radioactive fallout decreases. This, along with hyper-accurate targeting capabilities, is why the big multi-megaton weapons are no longer made. They are an incredibly inefficient waste of energy and only one warhead can fit on a missile, as opposed to ten of the smaller warheads.

Now, that doesn't detract from the effectiveness of telling people to "Get inside, stay inside, and stay tuned." Duck & Cover was only slightly more ridiculous than this. "Get inside" is kind of stupidly obvious. "Stay inside" is a death sentence unless you have enough material between you and outside to protect you from residual radiation. "Stay tuned" is worthless since communications will be destroyed, either directly by the blast or indirectly by EMP.

Best defense is to get out of the big cities *before* the bombs go off. Easier said than done for some people, but as the Director indicated, that NYC PSA is only going to work for a small terrorist nuclear device or a radiological device. It's useless for a missile attack by a nation state.

Russia's Status-6 "Poseidon" torpedo . Calling it is a torpedo is a misnomer. While the precise capabilities of the weapon are mysterious, it appears to be about 80 feet long -- which makes it more like a mini-submarine or an underwater ballistic missile. Poseidon is propelled by a nuclear reactor to a speed of 115 miles per hour and operates at deep depths up to 3,300 feet. It is armed with a massive 100-megaton warhead powerful enough to generate a giant tidal wave to destroy coastal cities.

 

[DEFCON Warning System]

No to canned goods for me. This is most dangerous and easily one the most contaminated surface to touch or even be near. Radiation and metals are like opposing poles on magnets. Radiation sticks to this longer than pretty much anything else and the dose can be extremely high for decades.

Cans only become radioactive if exposed to the ionizing blast.

Fallout does not contaminate cans. Just wash/brush the fallout off and you're good.

Radiation does not "stick". Radiation decays at the same rate no matter the surface. If something is more radioactive, then it will take longer. But if a feather and a piece of iron are contaminated with the same amount of radiation, they will decay at the same rate.

 

[RiffRaff]

Because the USA intelligence actually know what nuclear warheads that Russia has active to use.

No, because they have access to the same science that we do, and building 15 megaton warheads is simply not cost effective nor strategically sound. Smaller weapons are cheaper, simpler, and pack more of a punch when used together than a single warhead of the same total yield. If you would redo the simulation like I suggested you would see that for yourself. Fifteen 1 MT warheads detonated in a proper spread will cause MUCH more destruction than a single 15 MT warhead detonated dead center over a target, and they create less radioactive fallout as a bonus. This is an easily verifiable fact, not a personal opinion.

Russia's Status-6 "Poseidon" torpedo . Calling it is a torpedo is a misnomer. While the precise capabilities of the weapon are mysterious, it appears to be about 80 feet long -- which makes it more like a mini-submarine or an underwater ballistic missile. Poseidon is propelled by a nuclear reactor to a speed of 115 miles per hour and operates at deep depths up to 3,300 feet. It is armed with a massive 100-megaton warhead powerful enough to generate a giant tidal wave to destroy coastal cities.

Different purpose and delivery system than an ICBM. I should have stated it more accurately: There are no multi-megaton warheads in service on missiles or gravity bombs. (China might still be an exception; not sure how updated their current warheads are.) The Poseidon is a very recent development and is not intended to be detonated over a city, so I'm not counting it for the discussion about a nuclear detonation in or over NYC.

 

[william]

No, because they have access to the same science that we do, and building 15 megaton warheads is simply not cost effective nor strategically sound. Smaller weapons are cheaper, simpler, and pack more of a punch when used together than a single warhead of the same total yield. If you would redo the simulation like I suggested you would see that for yourself. Fifteen 1 MT warheads detonated in a proper spread will cause MUCH more destruction that a single 15 MT warhead detonated dead center over a target, and they create less radioactive fallout as a bonus. This is an easily verifiable fact, not a personal opinion.


Different purpose and delivery system than an ICBM. I should have stated it more accurately: There are no multi-magaton warheads in service on missiles or gravity bombs. (China might still be an exception; not sure how updated their current warheads are.) The Poseidon is a very recent development and is not intended to be detonated over a city, so I'm not counting it for the discussion about a nuclear detonation in or over NYC.

Does an underwater burst spread fallout like a ground burst? I guess it would depend on how deep the water was at detonation. If it was shallow like in a harbor it would throw up allot of sediment from the bottom wouldn't it? I can't imagine the destruction of a 100 mt warhead going off in a coastal harbor. Hopefully our hunter killers would take out their subs as soon as they opened their hatch. I don't think those huge subs that carry them are very quiet and would be fairly easy to track. Right now I think they only have one.

 

[RiffRaff]

Does an underwater burst spread fallout like a ground burst? I guess it would depend on how deep the water was at detonation. If it was shallow like in a harbor it would throw up allot of sediment from the bottom wouldn't it? I can't imagine the destruction of a 100 mt warhead going off in a coastal harbor. Hopefully our hunter killers would take out their subs as soon as they opened their hatch. I don't think those huge subs that carry them are very quiet and would be fairly easy to track. Right now I think they only have one.

I'm afraid I don't know much about the spread of radioactive fallout underwater. I know that any water sent up into the atmosphere from a waterburst and then falling back to land would behave similarly to fallout created by a groundburst, but as for water that isn't ejected and remains submerged, I'm not sure. I can try to find out, though.

 

[bartok]

Yeah; it was standard practice during the cold war.

During the Cold War, untill when? Even in the '80s? I ask. At that I was very young, so I don't really know, but my maybe baseless idea, is that such videos were more specific untill the beginning of the detente period.

Just learn it.

This is exactly the kind of video I'm thinking about.

Films like "The day after" (with the soviet version of which I don't remember the name) are a different stuff.

This is all kind of silly to do after we came up with the h-bomb, we figured that out then too. hence why the fallout shelters in cities haven't been restocked since the second half of the sixties. hell with computer simulations now in the recent 21st century we are pretty sure that at least a good chunk of that nuclear winter stuff was right. maybe you could weather it all if you had a hearty stock of food and seed and lived well south of the equator, in addition to being away from people, you may have a chance. if you live in america, europe, many parts of russia, very very difficult for you.

The H-bom exists since '60s. Swiss has still shelters perfectly working for almost all the population and a they have smartphone app (that I have installed) that warn in real-time if there is a nuclear attack.

There are no 15 MT warheads in service anymore. They were inefficient dinosaurs in a time when pinpoint targeting was still decades away and overkill was the best method of assuring the target was destroyed even if you missed.

Redo that same nuke map, but this time use fifteen 1 MT weapons airburst with overlapping 5 psi overpressure rings. You'll see that the damage radius and casualties increase while radioactive fallout decreases. This, along with hyper-accurate targeting capabilities, is why the big multi-megaton weapons are no longer made. They are an incredibly inefficient waste of energy and only one warhead can fit on a missile, as opposed to ten of the smaller warheads.

Now, that doesn't detract from the effectiveness of telling people to "Get inside, stay inside, and stay tuned." Duck & Cover was only slightly more ridiculous than this. "Get inside" is kind of stupidly obvious. "Stay inside" is a death sentence unless you have enough material between you and outside to protect you from residual radiation. "Stay tuned" is worthless since communications will be destroyed, either directly by the blast or indirectly by EMP.

Best defense is to get out of the big cities *before* the bombs go off. Easier said than done for some people, but as the Director indicated, that NYC PSA is only going to work for a small terrorist nuclear device or a radiological device. It's useless for a missile attack by a nation state.

Actually, strategic nuke with deterrence pourposes, are still of many MT. The difference is in a tactical level, not strategic.

Basically the PSA was either really inept attempt and educating the public or fear porn.

maybe... and it explains a lot of our days. But what they should have do? Something about what to do in case of a nuclear attack had to be said. They couldn't say only: "make the sign of the cross and recommends the soul to God".

However, that such videos are on air again, it's worring. It means that the risk is actual.

 

[Yingyang]

How will a smart phone app be operating after a nuclear war?

 

[DucknCover]

I'd suppose that a smartphone simply will explode when it's getting hit by an EMP.
Because in it all the circuits are short-circuited.

 

[bartok]

How will a smart phone app be operating after a nuclear war?

Boh! I don't know. However, internet was invented for military pourposes, just in case of nuclear war: it is redundancy enough. The app is called "AlertSwiss". It is not only for nuclear war, but also for other kind of disasters. However, Swiss I think is one of the readier Countries to the ventuality of any kind of war. Its neutrality is armed a lot. Much more the US perhaps, compared to the extent of course.

 

[DEFCON Warning System]

internet was invented for military pourposes

I thought originally the internet was made for communication between educational/research establishments. Then it went military.

 

[DucknCover]

Probably some older devices was more durable and redundant.
However this isn't the case with today's highly sensitive high tech products.
And even the people in Switzerland can't run for their bunkers in time since Russia's hypersonic missiles are in service.

 

[bartok]

I thought originally the internet was made for communication between educational/research establishments. Then it went military.

Maybe you are right. But for what we are speaking about, I don't think it makes the difference. Internet, almost from its very beginning, was used for military pourposes, due to its intrinsic redundancy, but it is possible it was originally invented for communication, education and research pourposes. I didn't know that, thank's.

 

[bartok]

Probably some older devices was more durable and redundant.
However this isn't the case with today's highly sensitive high tech products.
And even the people in Switzerland can't run for their bunkers in time since Russia's hypersonic missiles are in service.

It's not the device to be redundant in itself: it's the Internet to be redundant, as a graph with many nodes and many "arcs"(?) in which information can pass by, to reach each node. However, I don't know how that app works. I think that if a nuke explode on you head, nothing can be made... maybe it is for "middle" situations. For sure if Swiss have made this app, there is an effective reason.

 

[RiffRaff]

I'd suppose that a smartphone simply will explode when it's getting hit by an EMP.
Because in it all the circuits are short-circuited.

Absolutely, unequivocally, 100% bullshit, and I'm sick and tired of you posting misinformation based on myth and poor science.

Most cell phones that are not connected to their wall chargers will probably survive an EMP. If the owner of the cell phone is far enough away from the blast to survive, the phone most likely will as well.

I'm not going waste time explaining it to you again; you're not going to listen to me anyway. But stop posting bullshit conspiracy or debunked information here. It's not welcome, and quite frankly, neither are you.

 

[RiffRaff]

Actually, strategic nuke with deterrence pourposes, are still of many MT. The difference is in a tactical level, not strategic.

This is incorrect. The largest warhead in active service in the US military is a 1.2 MT yield. The Russians are supposed to be match that, but obviously they've been cheating.

China might still have some of their older 5 MT bombs in active service, but they are modernizing their nuclear arsenal so I imagine those will be the first to be retired.

Finally, the difference between strategic and tactical is how it's used, not its yield. Generally speaking, tactical nukes do have a smaller yield than strategic, but there are exceptions.

 

[Deleted account]

I thought originally the internet was made for communication between educational/research establishments. Then it went military.

Some complicated history there. It sort of wasn't military, but was funded by the DoD, so it sort of was, but then wasn't again... The various people who worked on ARPANET (which was the Internet's predecessor) had different goals in mind, and while resilience was a consideration, it wasn't really the main objective.

I'd say the popular belief that the Internet was intentionally designed to survive nuclear war is about 75% false and 25% true, if that makes any sense.

 

[dave II judgement day]

The H-bom exists since '60s. Swiss has still shelters perfectly working for almost all the population and a they have smartphone app (that I have installed) that warn in real-time if there is a nuclear attack.

Swiss arent exactly a prime strategic target in a nato-russian war are they