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Nuclear Proliferation

Snowfall said:
It’s an interesting thought process though, how far would nato really go to stop one of its members from building nukes?
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I would guess as far as anyone else. Otherwise... Well you know.

Also not the main issue, but if they don't, they will also look like hypocrites, then unable to stop any enemies nations like, you know, Iran from building nukes, without looking no better than Putin, hypocritically at least.
 
Have a feeling someone is going to bring up Israel. So going to preempt that.

Israel was a special case though... They kinda sorta straight up stole the nuclear material & tech from us, by the time we knew/could do something about it was to late, and to say so publicly would of been a national embarrassment at the time to the US so... Woops, our bad...

But the US was very pissed off about it, but as I said, to say so publicly would of been a national embarrassment so we covered it up.

CIA declassified a bunch of papers on this. This is all very real... Sadly. How the biggest country on nuclear proliferation accidentally armed its ally with nuclear weapons. The irony.
 
DEFCON Warning System said:
Is there a non-paywalled version of that?
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I found one. Denmark saying it will "seek its own nuclear weapons" is not exactly what Tusk said.

What he said was “As our autonomous capabilities grow, we will strive to prepare Poland for the most autonomous actions possible in this matter in the future.” That could be acquiring its own nuclear weapons or it could be getting close to that but not having their own, such as France's offer to deploy nuclear-capable fighter jets to allied countries.

Not saying Denmark isn't thinking about it. Just questioning the headline based on what was quoted in the article.
 
DEFCON Warning System said:
I found one. Denmark saying it will "seek its own nuclear weapons" is not exactly what Tusk said.

What he said was “As our autonomous capabilities grow, we will strive to prepare Poland for the most autonomous actions possible in this matter in the future.” That could be acquiring its own nuclear weapons or it could be getting close to that but not having their own, such as France's offer to deploy nuclear-capable fighter jets to allied countries.

Not saying Denmark isn't thinking about it. Just questioning the headline based on what was quoted in the article.
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“Poland will not want to be passive when it comes to nuclear security in a military context,” Tusk said. “We will cooperate with our allies, including France, which has made this specific proposal, and as our own autonomous capabilities increase, we will also strive to prepare Poland in the future for the most autonomous actions possible in this matter.”
Full quote makes it more likely, I think right now he’s referring to joining the French nuclear sharing program they’ve been discussing but sounds like he’s open to expanding it.
 
Snowfall said:
“Poland will not want to be passive when it comes to nuclear security in a military context,” Tusk said. “We will cooperate with our allies, including France, which has made this specific proposal, and as our own autonomous capabilities increase, we will also strive to prepare Poland in the future for the most autonomous actions possible in this matter.”
Full quote makes it more likely, I think right now he’s referring to joining the French nuclear sharing program they’ve been discussing but sounds like he’s open to expanding it.
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That's pretty much on point.
 
More and more Canadians are calling for Canada to develop its own nuclear weapons; in fact, people are more afraid of the US than of Russia or China. It's true that the UN is nearing its end; it will be the law of the strongest, and we are militarily weak.
 
NuclearID said:
Have a feeling someone is going to bring up Israel. So going to preempt that.

Israel was a special case though... They kinda sorta straight up stole the nuclear material & tech from us, by the time we knew/could do something about it was to late, and to say so publicly would of been a national embarrassment at the time to the US so... Woops, our bad...

But the US was very pissed off about it, but as I said, to say so publicly would of been a national embarrassment so we covered it up.

CIA declassified a bunch of papers on this. This is all very real... Sadly. How the biggest country on nuclear proliferation accidentally armed its ally with nuclear weapons. The irony.
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Let’s not forget France played a pivotal role in Israel’s nuclear program. Technical, materials, and French engineers helped build Israels nuclear program.
 
GBS61 said:
More and more Canadians are calling for Canada to develop its own nuclear weapons; in fact, people are more afraid of the US than of Russia or China. It's true that the UN is nearing its end; it will be the law of the strongest, and we are militarily weak.
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In fairness, the UN has been useless for settling international conflicts since its inception.
 
Snowfall said:
In fairness, the UN has been useless for settling international conflicts since its inception.
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Completely false:

AI-generated preview
Since its founding in 1945, the UN has been fundamental to peace, security, and sustainable development, acting as the primary global forum. It has successfully prevented a third world war, supported decolonization, and established crucial standards, such as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in 1948.
Welcome to the United Nations

Welcome to the United Nations

+3
Key uses and achievements since 1945:
Peacekeeping and humanitarian aid: Through the World Food Programme (WFP) and UNICEF, the UN helps millions of people. Peacekeeping missions have helped stabilize conflict zones, despite limitations.

International law and human rights: The International Court of Justice ensures the application of the law, while tribunals have convicted war criminals (former Yugoslavia, Rwanda).

Development and Environment: The UN coordinates the fight against climate change (through the IPCC) and promotes sustainable development, adapting to contemporary challenges.
Universal Forum: It facilitates dialogue among 193 member states, fostering compromise in a complex world.
Ministry for Europe and Foreign Affairs

Although criticized for its effectiveness during major crises and the paralysis of the Security Council, the UN remains essential for international cooperation.
Envoyer des commentaires
 
GBS61 said:
Completely false:

AI-generated preview
Since its founding in 1945, the UN has been fundamental to peace, security, and sustainable development, acting as the primary global forum. It has successfully prevented a third world war, supported decolonization, and established crucial standards, such as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in 1948.
Welcome to the United Nations

Welcome to the United Nations

+3
Key uses and achievements since 1945:
Peacekeeping and humanitarian aid: Through the World Food Programme (WFP) and UNICEF, the UN helps millions of people. Peacekeeping missions have helped stabilize conflict zones, despite limitations.

International law and human rights: The International Court of Justice ensures the application of the law, while tribunals have convicted war criminals (former Yugoslavia, Rwanda).

Development and Environment: The UN coordinates the fight against climate change (through the IPCC) and promotes sustainable development, adapting to contemporary challenges.
Universal Forum: It facilitates dialogue among 193 member states, fostering compromise in a complex world.
Ministry for Europe and Foreign Affairs

Although criticized for its effectiveness during major crises and the paralysis of the Security Council, the UN remains essential for international cooperation.
Envoyer des commentaires
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“Although criticized for its effectiveness during major crises and the paralysis of the security council”
Couldn’t have said it better myself, also I said international conflicts never said it doesn’t have some uses. Also AI is not a source.
 
Snowfall said:
“Although criticized for its effectiveness during major crises and the paralysis of the security council”
Couldn’t have said it better myself, also I said international conflicts never said it doesn’t have some uses. Also AI is not a source.
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AI can be a source if you take the time to. Verify “it’s” sources.
Its conclusions are what needed monitored as well.
Is actually seen a AI algorithm change its conclusions when confronted with contradictory data.
 
Publius said:
AI can be a source if you take the time to. Verify “it’s” sources.
Its conclusions are what needed monitored as well.
Is actually seen a AI algorithm change its conclusions when confronted with contradictory data.
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Then ai isn’t the source, it’s an information gathering tool. Using AI analysis as a source is like you or I giving an opinion and calling it a source.
 
Snowfall said:
Then ai isn’t the source, it’s an information gathering tool. Using AI analysis as a source is like you or I giving an opinion and calling it a source.
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I see your point, I’ve posted AI before but only if I’ve checked at least a few of its sources.
AI being used to post for information is basically a customized data aggregator.
But you’re correct it’s not a source, but even sources can be wrong. We’ve seen that as well.
We will always have to suspect every data point coming to us. Whether its google search engine results, MSN, or a AI algorithm
 
Publius said:
I see your point, I’ve posted AI before but only if I’ve checked at least a few of its sources.
AI being used to post for information is basically a customized data aggregator.
But you’re correct it’s not a source, but even sources can be wrong. We’ve seen that as well.
We will always have to suspect every data point coming to us. Whether its google search engine results, MSN, or a AI algorithm
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For sure, ai is very useful to find sources to read but the google AI one seems to have incorrect analysis all the time so I avoid it like the plague.
 
Snowfall said:
Then ai isn’t the source, it’s an information gathering tool. Using AI analysis as a source is like you or I giving an opinion and calling it a source.
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AI doesn't have political opinions, of course it's not perfect, but in your case, saying that the UN isn't useful is your political opinion.

Note that I haven't yet stated my political opinion about the UN; I've used it to explain its purpose.
 
Snowfall said:
For sure, ai is very useful to find sources to read but the google AI one seems to have incorrect analysis all the time so I avoid it like the plague.
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I use a variety of AI “aggregators” to check them against each other on some question’s. Duck Duck Go’s differing AI models, Claude is succinct. I also use grok and google. Check them against each other.
 
GBS61 said:
AI doesn't have political opinions,
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It is influenced by its training. I've caught ChatGPT making value judgements that I did not request many many times. I proceeded to admonish it for going beyond my questions to provide a value judgement I neither requested not cared about. Value judgements are the basis of partisan political positions.
 
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