Religion again?

[Publius]

Arguably organized religion has been the vessel that the forces you mention act through, IE manifest destiny in NA, the crusades, the split between Catholicism and Lutheranism and the wars that were sparked from that moment, Pogroms committed against Jews for centuries, The Holocaust. You are probably correct though these psychological tribal instincts would continue even without organized religion, but damn it seems that is has exacerbated the problem. And even back in the middle ages in the height of these religious conflicts there was still some sense of respect for your enemies, while wholesale slaughter was not impossible, the taking of slaves was still seen as more humane than just slaughtering those who share a different religion than that of yours. Now the messages of hate are not directed against the power structures that use the religion as a shield, but against the common people that make up that religion. Vilifying the civilian population as complicit and therefore prone to acceptable reprisals in the name of God is a dangerous game and one that cannot be settled with diplomacy.

Pretty shallow assessment for the causes of evil in the world. Stalinism Maoist Pol pot Shining Path. 80 million +
All in the name of some variant of athist communism.

I’m not diminishing the horrors perpetrated in the name of religion.
But the illness that infects humanity is found in humans themselves.

That is why over time socialism will never work because the cancer that eventually corrupts most endeavors will grab the levers of power in socialism and use it against their own.
That’s what fascism is, the levers of power in socialist nation grabbing the greater powers of control and production.

And this is why a well armed populace is necessary so that the gov will forever harbor fear that the populace might depose them by force.
It is the inherent tension that forever exist between large populations.

 

[intel-bank]

Oh no, I replied once to a religious comment, not touching this toxic threat with a 50ft pole(after this reply)

 

[Peter Griffin]

Pretty shallow assessment for the causes of evil in the world. Stalinism Maoist Pol pot Shining Path. 80 million +
All in the name of some variant of athist communism.

I’m not diminishing the horrors perpetrated in the name of religion.
But the illness that infects humanity is found in humans themselves.

That is why over time socialism will never work because the cancer that eventually corrupts most endeavors will grab the levers of power in socialism and use it against their own.
That’s what fascism is, the levers of power in socialist nation grabbing the greater powers of control and production.

And this is why a well armed populace is necessary so that the gov will forever harbor fear that the populace might depose them by force.
It is the inherent tension that forever exist between large populations.

When did I ascribe Organized religion as the sole cause of evil in the world? I wasn't trying to diminish the evil perped by atheist states/communist states I was just drawing attention to how organized religion is used to fuel hate and incite violence. Nowhere did I disagree with your sentiment or tried to prove otherwise, I actually agree with you. Just pointing out how both India and Pakistan are spewing religious hate on a whole 'nother level and how that can cloud both sides from seeking diplomatic resolution to the conflict. And trust me, I am not blaming 'religion' itself as proponent of the state to incite violence, I am however blaming those who seek to organize religion and ingratiate it into governmental organizations to curry influence or power over those they disagree with. Just as the examples I provided prove.

 

[Publius]

Oh no, I replied once to a religious comment, not touching this toxic threat with a 50ft pole(after this reply)

Oh no! once again we see an over generalized attack of religion, also known in this context as “the other” see the irony there? Blaming the ills of the world on “the other” perfectly exemplifying the tribal nature that inhabits all of humanity.

So feel free to critique religion, just don’t assume it will go without being challenged.

Or were you just hoping to “fake shame” me into not replying out of some deep seated need on my part to remain humble and justly contrite.
Because everyone knows religion is a sickness, a disease and it must continue to be ridiculed and silenced by pseudo intellectuals just as it has been for the last 80 years.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Oh no! once again we see an over generalized attack of religion, also known in this context as “the other” see the irony there? Blaming the ills of the world on “the other” perfectly exemplifying the tribal nature that inhabits all of humanity.

So feel free to critique religion, just don’t assume it will go without being challenged.

Or were you just hoping to “fake shame” me into not replying out of some deep seated need on my part to remain humble and justly contrite.
Because everyone knows religion is a sickness, a disease and it must continue to be ridiculed and silenced by pseudo intellectuals just as it has been for the last 80 years.

Once again, you are severely misunderstanding the difference between critiquing organized religion and religions. They are two very very different things. I am making the argument that organized religion, especially that of Christianity, has deviated far far away from what it is laid out to be in the Bible. If you would like I will direct you to these verses, but I am assuming that you have also read the bible and know this to be true. And Oreid, you go back and read what Intel bank originally responded to my comment with, he was actually agreeing with what you said before you even said it. I didn't mean for this become some kind of debate on theological morals but I was just pointing out how both India and Pakistan are allowing their religious hatred to determine their government's response. That's all. I was not trying to make an argument against religion existing in general I just have my reservations about the extent to which it should be shaped by men and how they use it to exert power and influence. A relationship with God should before anything be personal, and not based on ritualization.

 

[intel-bank]

Oh no! once again we see an over generalized attack of religion, also known in this context as “the other” see the irony there? Blaming the ills of the world on “the other” perfectly exemplifying the tribal nature that inhabits all of humanity.

So feel free to critique religion, just don’t assume it will go without being challenged.

Or were you just hoping to “fake shame” me into not replying out of some deep seated need on my part to remain humble and justly contrite.
Because everyone knows religion is a sickness, a disease and it must continue to be ridiculed and silenced by pseudo intellectuals just as it has been for the last 80 years.

You ought to read my original reply in the other thread.

 

[GBS61]

Oh no! once again we see an over generalized attack of religion, also known in this context as “the other” see the irony there?

If you don't want to be criticized, stop including religion in your comments and let others criticize it.
Furthermore, in my opinion, religion should take place at home and in your church.
I don't discuss the Israel-Hamas issue because this site isn't secular on this subject, as evidenced by the fact that the term anti-Semitic is prohibited on this site. This term is biblical. The other day, a leader threatened to ban me (nothing in my comments was anti-Semitic). He got furious, and maybe that's the case for you.

 

[Publius]

You ought to read my original reply in the other thread.

I did and that is why I included the irony of the “othering” or tribalism that goes into the discussions about the many ills and pitfalls associated with religion.

 

[intel-bank]

I did and that is why I included the irony of the “othering” or tribalism that goes into the discussions about the many ills and pitfalls associated with religion.

You know I'm religious, right? I don't subscribe to any organized religion, but I am religious, and practice faith. I'm just saying idk why you are mad at me for saying I wouldn't touch this thread, which I now am because you seemed to be convinced I was attacking you personally.

The only religion I criticized at all was Islam. I have no great evil hatred of your religion. I do however think you can keep your religious laws in your house and your church, and away from the women and LGBTQ people in my life, as I do have a massive problem with that, because I do not and will not follow your religious rules, and will fight to prevent said laws from being forced on me.

But other than that? Live and let live. As I said, religion is just an excuse for tribalism and othering.

Which, tribalism and othering are something I have huge problems with and that's why - yes - I do think we should have open borders, I believe nations aka tribes are the root of all war, and closed borders perpetuate the idea of some national identity that places more importance on where someone was born than the species of which they are a part of.

 

[Publius]

I am making the argument that organized religion, especially that of Christianity, has deviated far far away from what it is laid out to be in the Bible.

All true but that does not make christianity one of the premier perpetrators of mass killing.
How many deaths and people taken into slavery did the Islamic caliphate commit before its expansion was eventually halted in France and Spain. By the own records over 30 mil. That is the background that motivated Europe to launch the crusades.
Which were not good in themselves at all. But the crusades were not motivated in vacuum.
But we’re not allowed to characterize Islam as a political system that encourages its expansion thru force and jihad. That’s islamaphobic. But it’s perfectly ok to criticize organized Christianity as some great perpetrator of genocide.
Its just old and generally not accurate nor comparable to genocides and persecutions thru history.

Why don’t we criticize quasi-animistic religion of the Mongols who perpetrated the sacking and murder of every living thing in Baghdad. Resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands residents of Baghdad.
This was in 1258AD and a contemporary event to the crusades. But we don’t talk about the wholesale murder of men women and children.
We just tisk tisk about the Christian crusades and how horrible they were.


Or take the positive aspect of Christian England using their navy to actively work to end the widespread practice of slavery for over half a century

 

[NuclearID]

Oh no, I replied once to a religious comment, not touching this toxic threat with a 50ft pole(after this reply)

Two! Two good laughs today on the forums. On a roll today here! (First being Iran the terrorist puppet master, mediating a war over terrorism. LOL)

 

[intel-bank]

Two. Two good laughs today on the forums. On a roll. ! (First being Iran the terrorist puppet master, mediating a war over terrorism. LOL)

I tried to stay out of it, man, but @OReid has a way of compelling me to reply.

 

[NuclearID]

I tried to stay out of it, man, but @OReid has a way of compelling me to reply.

No shame man. I use to tell myself up and down all day I'm not going to post in political section and ended up getting sucked right in. Everytime... sigh.

Luckily I learned my lesson before the lesson was permanently taught to me if you get what I mean. At least you don't get carried away like I use too. That was my trouble really.

 

[intel-bank]

No shame man. I use to tell myself up and down all day I'm going to post in political section and ended up getting sucked right in. Everytime... sigh.

Happens to the best of us. I regularly engage with my Trump supporting coworker even though I know he won't change his mind, and that it is a poor idea to talk politics at work, but I figure if he's gonna use his free speech I will as well. So far nobody has punched each other, or even felt disrespected. But it could happen, another coworker walked off insttd of punching him because of something he said

Luckily I learned my lesson before the lesson was permanently taught to me if you get what I mean. At least you don't get carried away like I use too. That was my trouble really.

When engaging sensitive topics, consider that you are actually teaching an impressionable young mind that can be swayed by logical arguments, but is also considering levels of hostility as to who has the correct argument. Chances are nobody here will change their mind, but there ARE (as I was) people who are still forming opinions, and hostility will not convince them, only make them see you as an unreasonable hostile person.