Select Committee on China

[william]

The Chinese Communist Party’s “all-weather” partnership with Maduro’s regime failed to shield the dictator from facing accountability for endangering Americans. This outcome should be a clear lesson to other actors aligning with the CCP.More broadly, the United States must deny China positioning and influence in the Western Hemisphere that would threaten America’s national security interests. The CCP’s ambitions and actions make clear this is non-negotiable.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2007556477033304574

 

[teekay99]

China may have held back a response because they don't need or care about Maduro. They want influence and access to Venezuela. The China friendly Venezuelan government is still in charge. In the absence of any further US action in Venezuela or US persuasion of the remaining government (which I think must happen), China still has access to Venezuela without Maduro.

Ultimately, it's certainly possible that China may not act because of its pending Taiwan plans. My point is that it hasn't responded yet to the US action in Venezuela because for China's objectives, nothing yet had changed.

 

[Snowfall]

In the absence of any further US action in Venezuela or US persuasion of the remaining government (which I think must happen), China still has access to Venezuela without Maduro.

The U.S. isn’t done with Venezuela. My guess is if the newly appointed leaders don’t align with the U.S. they’ll do the same thing.

 

[teekay99]

The U.S. isn’t done with Venezuela. My guess is if the newly appointed leaders don’t align with the U.S. they’ll do the same thing.

I generally agree. But China does not have to act overtly yet until the US shows its hand.

 

[Deleted account]

The U.S. isn’t done with Venezuela. My guess is if the newly appointed leaders don’t align with the U.S. they’ll do the same thing.

If the US keeps feeding coins into that slot machine, eventually its luck will run out and you'll end up with another Bay of Pigs. Or Mogadishu.
This - if it occurs in South America - will be disastrous for US interests, since it will shatter the illusion (yes, it's always been something of an illusion) that the US is in control of that part of the world.

 

[Snowfall]

If the US keeps feeding coins into that slot machine, eventually its luck will run out and you'll end up with another Bay of Pigs. Or Mogadishu.
This - if it occurs in South America - will be disastrous for US interests, since it will shatter the illusion (yes, it's always been something of an illusion) that the US is in control of that part of the world.

The difference is the majority of people in Venezuela want change not just the U.S. government.

 

[Deleted account]

The difference is the majority of people in Venezuela want change not just the U.S. government.

That is true. But "the majority of people" is a fickle beast, and while Maduro's regime may be a fairly extreme case of barbaric authoritarianism, other countries on Trump's "to do" list aren't so clear-cut. Not to mention the fact that humanitarian considerations are completely irrelevant in WH's current geopolitical calculus, and everybody knows that.

If the US wishes to wield influence in South America, it would do well to recall Talleyrand's famous quip: "You can do anything with bayonets except sit on them."

 

[Deleted account]

I generally agree. But China does not have to act overtly yet until the US shows its hand.

China is going to invade Taiwan regardless of what the US does in South America. It's only a matter of "will they have a plausible-sounding excuse, or will they be forced to claim Taiwan is flooding them with drugs".

 

[teekay99]

China is going to invade Taiwan regardless of what the US does in South America. It's only a matter of "will they have a plausible-sounding excuse, or will they be forced to claim Taiwan is flooding them with drugs".

I suspect that's true. My engagement with this thread was to add context that China's decision not to respond yet is not due to weakness, fear, or inability. It's because they don't need to at this time. Nothing has changed for them in Venezuela in the absence of any further US activity or power struggle in Caracas.

 

[Onoya]

The difference is the majority of people in Venezuela want change not just the U.S. government.

Wanting change doesn't automatically mean wanting USA to take over...

It's like saying that because Greenlanders vote in majority for independentist parties (want to separate with Denmark), then they want to be part of USA

 

[Snowfall]

Wanting change doesn't automatically mean wanting USA to take over...

It's like saying that because Greenlanders vote in majority for independentist parties (want to separate with Denmark), then they want to be part of USA

Most of them wanted Maduro gone by any means.
Greenland is an actual democracy they don’t want their current government gone since it’s actually legitimate.

 

[Onoya]

Most of them wanted Maduro gone by any means.
Greenland is an actual democracy they don’t want their current government gone since it’s actually legitimate.

i don't disagree with the fact that most of Venezuelians wanted Maduro gone. But that doesn't mean that they want to be under US rule.
Because they (greenlanders or venezuelians) want their current governement to be over doesn't mean they want to be under US rule.

 

[Snowfall]

i don't disagree with the fact that most of Venezuelians wanted Maduro gone. But that doesn't mean that they want to be under US rule.
Because they (greenlanders or venezuelians) want their current governement to be over doesn't mean they want to be under US rule.

I don’t believe the U.S. has any intention of actively ruling Venezuela, they just want someone US friendly. As for Greenland, I’m not even gonna comment because I don’t know what to think with that whole situation or what I think is actually going to happen.

 

[william]

China may have held back a response because they don't need or care about Maduro. They want influence and access to Venezuela. The China friendly Venezuelan government is still in charge. In the absence of any further US action in Venezuela or US persuasion of the remaining government (which I think must happen), China still has access to Venezuela without Maduro.

Ultimately, it's certainly possible that China may not act because of its pending Taiwan plans. My point is that it hasn't responded yet to the US action in Venezuela because for China's objectives, nothing yet had changed.

How can you say nothing has changed? Cuba, China, Russia and Iran no longer have access to Venezuela's natural resources or use of their territory for military purposes. I know what you are saying about Maduros inner circle still remaining but give it a little time. All US assets are still there; Venezuela's air defense has been degraded and I'm sure that any bad actors will be targeted by various three letter agencies if need be. I certainly would not want to be one of Maduros friends now.

Cuba says 32 Cuban officers were killed in US operation in Venezuela​

HAVANA (AP) — An American military operation in Venezuela killed 32 Cuban officers over the weekend, the Cuban government said Sunday in the first official death count provided of the American strikes in the South American nation. What the Cubans were working on in the South American nation was unclear, but Cuba is a close ally of Venezuela’s government and has sent military and police forces to assist in operations for years.

MSN

 

[Publius]

The difference is the majority of people in Venezuela want change not just the U.S. government.

That’s agreed to
And it’s something the US needs to facilitate. If we do facilitate an independent Venezuelan government.
It’s a win for both

 

[william]

Our military installations are not tourist attractions. Unauthorized surveillance of U.S. military bases is not an isolated incident. Instead, it’s part of a broader pattern of Chinese espionage targeting America’s defenses. The U.S. must remain clear-eyed and resolute in countering China's incursions and threats.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2009391661886185782

https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdmo/pr/chinese-national-charged-unlawfully-photographing-air-force-base-and-vital-military

 

[Deleted account]

That’s agreed to
And it’s something the US needs to facilitate. If we do facilitate an independent Venezuelan government.
It’s a win for both

It doesn't appear the US has any interest in doing that.