The United States is prepared to abandon ally Ukraine if Ukraine does not surrender to Russia.

[Peter Griffin]

Not the opinion I expected from you but the opinion I was delighted to hear! I can see both sides of the diplomatic coin for why Trump is using this strategy, I just feel like there are too many examples of appeasement just delaying the inevitable. A strong independent Ukraine and a Ukraine backed by the USA are not mutually exclusive, one cannot exist without the other. It just feels like right now our leaders are delaying when really what we need is decisive action to shove Putins boot so far back up his ass he never thinks about doing this again. I agree with republicans like Graham who are saying we need to provide Ukraine with WAR WINNING weapons not this trickle of hope and outdated equipment. War is tough. Soldiers adapt. The russians have gotten quite good at countering our armor systems, why not introduce something to Ukraine that the russians don't have experience countering? Now there's a thought! haha

 

[Peter Griffin]

There is a lines. It’s Poland and Germany. Ukraine was, unfortunately to far.

IMO, We (The USA) need to focus on China. We will need all the war stocks we can get. Sending more equipment and supplies to Ukraine instead of Hawaii, Guam and Alaska makes no sense.

I think the point that was made earlier, that China relies on a placated Russia to even think of invading Taiwan. So I'm wondering, what if we do pigeon-eye China into an further alliance with Russia? China surely wouldn't invade Taiwan knowing that Russian AD would be wiped off the face of the planet, leaving the Chinese NW deserts open for strategic bombing. Idk I'm probably speaking out the ass. Hungover. Good night was had.

 

[Publius]

Not the opinion I expected from you but the opinion I was delighted to hear! I can see both sides of the diplomatic coin for why Trump is using this strategy, I just feel like there are too many examples of appeasement just delaying the inevitable. A strong independent Ukraine and an Ukraine backed by the USA are not mutually exclusive, one cannot exist without the other. It just feels like right now our leaders are delaying when really what we need is decisive action to shove Putins boot so far back up his ass he never thinks about doing this again. I agree with republicans like Graham who are saying we need to provide Ukraine with WAR WINNING weapons not this trickle of hope and outdated equipment. War is tough. Soldiers adapt. The russians have gotten quite good at countering our armor systems, why not introduce something to Ukraine that the russians don't have experience countering? Now there's a thought! haha

So how do we do that without either working towards a peace with new boundaries, or by dramatically upping our involvement and financial commitments to Ukraine?
That is the question, we’re saying appeasing Putin is unacceptable, ok fair enough. How do we deal with Ukraine when they also are unwilling to achieve some kind of peace. I know Zelinski has said he’s agreeable to negotiations, but not without nato troops in Ukraine as a security guarantee.
Which Putin refuses to negotiate on.

See the problem neither side is willing to take the first step.

So we’re back to what I was saying last spring. Send in troops now.
Who’s actually going to send troops and will it be meaningful enough to appease Zelinski without being so overt Putin digs in.

So let’s do nothing but issue platitudes and write checks.

The only military magic bullet to flip the script on Putin militarily would be a large armored brigade or possibly a division. Simply because of the geographic size of the battlefield. An actual WW2 armored battle with dug in defenses.

If we actually mean we stand with Ukraine and all the might imply that would be what is required now.

Is that what we’re suggesting here?

 

[Yingyang]

Any reason why you cannot edit your posts in this subsection much like Patrons Corner? Even without my "special privilege" for reporting anyone should be able to edit their post five minute after posting before becoming unavailable to edit... Just a heads up @DEFCON Warning System if that was a unintentional. Also related, I love that the reaction to posts is gone. I'd be in favor of that forums wide.

 

[Torch]

Not the opinion I expected from you but the opinion I was delighted to hear! I can see both sides of the diplomatic coin for why Trump is using this strategy,

To everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under heaven.

 

[Peter Griffin]

So we’re back to what I was saying last spring. Send in troops now.
Who’s actually going to send troops and will it be meaningful enough to appease Zelinski without being so overt Putin digs in.

I've been of the opinion for quite some time that the USA should establish a no fly zone and European nations should send in ground troops. Whether that be in a peace agreement/ ceasefire or a conflict akin to Korea , thats up to Putin to decide.

 

[DEFCON Warning System]

ve been of the opinion for quite some time that the USA should establish a no fly zone

And if Russia violates the no-fly zone...what?

 

[Peter Griffin]

And if Russia violates the no-fly zone...what?

Then US fighters should escort Ukrainian fighter squadrons to intercept them while the US fighters could use their stealth and radar capabilities to give the Ukrainians an upper hand in the dogfight, while staying well behind the Ukrainian fighters. Give them more a couple more Patriots and the fight wouldn't even be close to being in Russia's advantage. I would speculate more but I am not well educated enough on the topic to give you a solid answer.

 

[Publius]

And if Russia violates the no-fly zone...what?

Well if your going to set up a no fly zone and they violate it. You politely give them an opportunity to leave and if they don’t you smoke-em.

 

[Torch]

Well if your going to set up a no fly zone and they violate it. You politely give them an opportunity to leave and if they don’t you smoke-em.

It’s not that easy. The best (and most prolific and successful) air to air engagements begin when someone’s wingman rapidly deconstructs. Warnings them makes it uber hard to “smoke ‘em” They can usually escape ordinance unless they are flat footed deep inside the “no escape” envelope.

Then there is the whole pesky WW3 thing.

Don’t misunderstand, I think we should accept the risk, flush contract troops to the western half and throw up a no fly/no notice zone west of the Dnipro and 200 KM centered on Kiev. All PMC including the Airforce. (Yes we have contract Air Forces almost as good the US and certainly better any Soviet/Russian force.)

But since we won’t accept the risk (certainly NATO won’t at this time) we should stay out.

But understand Ukraine can no longer “win”. The best they can do now is not lose. They’ve proven unable to master a combined arms or air land battle doctrine that would enable them to defeat the Russians. We have tried.

So back to reality. The UA can’t win and Russia can’t lose or everyone loses. The lines are nearly static. Time to negotiate.
Not surrender. Ne-go-rate.

Websters:

:to arrange for or bring about through conference, discussion, and compromise
<negotiate a treaty>

My 2¢ YMMV

 

[Gargolu]

No one can stop Russia anymore, it's too late, before the invasion of Ukraine by Russia, USA knew, it would have been possible to send NATO soldiers before the invasion in Ukraine and Russia would not have dared. The only solution: confront Russia directly.
I think we will have no choice but to live a 3rd world war, unfortunately!

yea your correct with how much russia has lost in oil refineries alone I'm afraid russia will commit i just don't know when. both sides have to stop and i don't think this will happen either.

 

[Gargolu]

I believe that this is exactly what will happen. The European countries seem to be growing a backbone and when Z bends and agrees to the rare earth deal and putin doesn't withdraw his forces and continues to attack Ukraine the US will join the European countries and Nato to call putins bluff with a massive show of force.

I did see that putin countered with a joint russian, US rare earth deal, and it will be very interesting to see how the west maneuvers around that.

I would love to be a fly on the wall in some of the backroom negotiations going on right now.

The russians are just as cautious of WWIII as the west is. Maybe more so and they see that the current administration is putting true warriors in place in the pentagon that actually know how to fight and win if it comes to that. I don't think you'll see the SOD telling putin we're not going to attack and will restrain Trump like what happened with china this time. We'll see. They are playing a very dangerous game, and I would advise everyone to stock up on supplies if it all goes south.

The russians are just as cautious of WWIII as the west is. ( well yea cause two superpowers that have nukes have to be very cautious ) We'll see. They are playing a very dangerous game, and I would advise everyone to stock up on supplies if it all goes south, ( oh yea things can got o hell really quick this whole thing has to stop and its not 32-33 refineries have been hit and now im hearing russia will strike back with 500 drones a DAY!!! )

 

[NuclearID]

afraid russia will commit

Empty Russian threats meant to manipulate the far right who have totally & gullablly bought it up including our dear overlord Trump who is so weak as hell, scared, with ZERO backbone, Trump is going to hand everything every Russian leader has ever wanted. Trump is a filthy Traitor.

 

[NuclearID]

The russians are just as cautious of WWIII

Sure that's why they keep using EMPTY threats which have been proven empty EVEYTIME as they have been crossed EVEYTIME. Putin says he is going to use nuclear weapons to manipulate our gullable overlord Trump.

Russia red lines are a joke and have been proven so time and again. Spare us the incrediblly poor Russian talking points/propoganda.

 

[Publius]

Sure that's why they keep using EMPTY threats which have been proven empty EVEYTIME as they have been crossed EVEYTIME. Putin says he is going to use nuclear weapons to manipulate our gullable overlord Trump.

Russia red lines are a joke and have been proven so time and again. Spare us the incrediblly poor Russian talking points/propoganda.

You know I agree with you regarding russias mumblings about tactical nukes. Now invade Russia proper is a different story which is to be expected.

But Russias threats are not all empty, they did after all invade and have thus far refused to disengage yet.

But tactical nukes I don’t put much store in. The risk or cost is actually more along the lines WW1 protracted war, lots of death little change.

 

[NuclearID]

Now invade Russia proper is a different story

Really dude? No it's not. Ukraine has done just that. Months and months ago. Where are the nukes? Show me the nukes. You can't cause he didn't use them when Ukraine using western weapons invaded and still occupied Russian proverb. Is a empty red line like all the others where.

Your smarter then this. A lot of people are. Not sure why they are falling for Russian propaganda talking points about empty threats PURPOSFULLY designed to manipulate and fool people into doing what they want which is the West to give up and roll over. Which is exactly what Trump is doing and falling for!!!

 

[william]

Lol!

Empty Russian threats meant to manipulate the far right who have totally & gullablly bought it up including our dear overlord Trump who is so weak as hell, scared, with ZERO backbone, Trump is going to hand everything every Russian leader has ever wanted. Trump is a filthy Traitor.

Donald Trump Is Loosening America’s Airstrike Rules

The U.S. has a variety of sophisticated weaponry that can be deployed from a variety of different platforms to execute airstrikes against enemy targets; at the U.S.’s disposal is everything from direct-fire rockets and missiles, cannons and guns, as well as a variety of aerial bombs, glide bombs, cruise missiles, and ballistic missiles—which are in turn deployable from fighters, bombers, and drones. As such, the U.S. has a plethora of options when choosing to engage with enemy targets.

And now, the U.S. military will have more latitude when conducting airstrikes, as a result of new permissions from the Trump administration.

“The Trump administration has granted U.S. military commanders more leeway to conduct airstrikes against suspected militant threats, a shift from the Biden administration policy that required greater sign-off from the White House and Pentagon,” Air & Space Forces Magazine reported. “The move gives U.S. military commanders greater flexibility to carry out airstrikes without getting case-by-case approval from Washington.”

Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth confirmed the new policy.

Donald Trump Is Loosening America’s Airstrike Rules—And Some Observers Are Worried

While a Pentagon and White House sign-off has not always ensured commendable (or even legal) airstrike execution in the past, the process at least required the sign-off of individuals who answered to the American public.

nationalinterest.org

 

[NuclearID]

But Russias threats are not all empty, they did after all invade and have thus far refused to disengage yet.

Dictators can do what they please. Including doubling down on somthing they shouldn't that is costing them and their nation everything. No checks and balances for Putin to stop his reckless personal war of land grabs & cos-playing the Soviet Union, horribly I may add.

Only thing Russia knows is force. Will be the only way to get Putin to the table. Force his hand in Ukraine so he can then go and sell his miserable war he started alone as a win to his people.

 

[Publius]

Really dude? No it's not. Ukraine has done just that. Months and months ago. Where are the nukes? Show me the nukes. You can't cause he didn't use them when Ukraine using western weapons invaded and still occupied Russian proverb. Is a empty red line like all the others where.

Your smarter then this. A lot of people are. Not sure why they are falling for Russian propaganda talking points about empty threats PURPOSFULLY designed to manipulate and fool people into doing what they want which is the West to give up and roll over. Which is exactly what Trump is doing and falling for!!!

You misunderstood me or I was not clear enough. I meant in the true sense of the meaning “invade Russia” as in launch a full scale invasion to conquer or seize significant portions of Russian territory.
Drone strikes inside Russia against military and infrastructure were always on the table as far as I was concerned. Simply because Russia is launching conventional strikes from inside Russia. So they should expect reciprocal strikes on their territory.

I meant a conventional invasion of opposing territory to occupy or overthrow. You know the MAD doctrine regarding a large land war in Europe.

The tactical nuke threat as it pertains to the Ukrainian Russian war in its current form. Then no those are empty threats

And by the way freaking out about WW3 or nuclear war is just as over the top as freaking out about a threat to US national security because peace negotiations are being discussed.

The fear of never capitulating, is as great and inflated as the fear of never provoking or taking a stand. Both concerns should always be reasoned thru not just accepted as dogma

 

[NuclearID]

Moved all issues with permissions here in this subsection to another new thread to get this thread back on track. Any further comments or issues regarding permissions please go/post here:

Thread 'Social Media Post Subsection Limits on Permissions'

Mar 2, 2025

Any reason why you cannot edit your posts in this subsection much like Patrons Corner? Even without my "special privilege" for reporting anyone should be able to edit their post five minute after posting before becoming unavailable to edit... Just a heads up @DEFCON Warning System if that was a unintentional. Also related, I love that the reaction to posts is gone. I'd be in favor of that forums wide.

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