Theology: refreshed

[william]

My argument that Christ was one part of the Holy Trinity for my Jewish friends.

1. Jewish people do not believe that the "Jewish Messiah" was going to be "God in the flesh" the way Christians understand the Bible's teachings. For at least the last 2,000 years the Jewish Messiah was thought to be a prophet like Elijah.

2. Jewish people would not accept the New Testament as being authoritative. Their "Bible" (as you would find in the pews of a synagogue) only contains the 39 books that Christians call the "Old Testament. ("Torah" means "The Law" a refers to the Five Books of Moses. Their entire Bible they call "Tanach" which is an acronym for "The Law, The Prophets, and The Writings").

1. Jesus and the original Twelve disciples were all Jewish and believed that the 39 books of the Jewish Bible were/are authoritative.

2. For the first 20 years of the Church, almost all the leaders and a large percentage of the followers were Jewish.

3. Jesus, all the Jewish leaders of the Church, and all the Jewish members of the Church in the First Century believed that the Jewish Bible did predict the following:

A. That the Messiah would be "God in the Flesh."
I. Isaiah 7:14 Says that "God will be with us" ("Immanuel") through the procedure of the virgin birth of the Messiah: "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel."

II. Isaiah 9:6-7 Calls the Messiah the "Father of Eternity" which would only apply to a divine person: "For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, On the throne of David and over his kingdom, To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness From then on and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will accomplish this."

B. That the Messiah would shed His blood to cover the sins of His people.

I. Psalm 22 has several specific phrases that apply to Christ's death on the cross.

II. Isaiah 53 is the most graphic description of the Messiah being "pierced" for His people. Isaiah 53:10 specifically says that Messiah's death will be a "guilt offering" for His people (one of the five types of Offerings described in Leviticus 1-7): "But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand."

III. Zechariah 12:10 In the context the Lord ("Jehovah") is talking: "I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn."

IV. Zechariah 13:6-7 also talks about the Messiah being "pierced": "And one will say to him, 'What are these wounds between your arms?' Then he will say, 'Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.' "Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd, And against the man, My Associate," Declares the LORD of hosts. "Strike the Shepherd that the sheep may be scattered; And I will turn My hand against the little ones."

C. That God would raise the Messiah from death.

I. Psalm 16:10 For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol; Nor will You allow Your Holy One to undergo decay."

II. Isaiah 53:10-11 Despite the prediction of death, Isaiah envisions the Messiah alive afterward: "But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand. As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied; By His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, As He will bear their iniquities."

Here is another interesting example. In Acts 2, the Jewish disciple Peter quotes a variety of Jewish Bible passages to encourage his fellow Jews to believe that Jesus of Nazareth is their Messiah:

Acts 2:21-36

21. 'AND IT SHALL BE THAT EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.' Joel 2:32
22. "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know -
23. This Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.
24. "But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power.
25. "For David says of Him, 'I SAW THE LORD ALWAYS IN MY PRESENCE; FOR HE IS AT MY RIGHT HAND, SO THAT I WILL NOT BE SHAKEN.
Psalms 16:8-11
26. 'THEREFORE MY HEART WAS GLAD AND MY TONGUE EXULTED; MOREOVER MY FLESH ALSO WILL LIVE IN HOPE; Psalms 16:8-11
27. BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT ABANDON MY SOUL TO HADES, NOR ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY. Psalms 16:8-11
28. 'YOU HAVE MADE KNOWN TO ME THE WAYS OF LIFE; YOU WILL MAKE ME FULL OF GLADNESS WITH YOUR PRESENCE.' Psalms 16:8-11
29. "Brethren , I may confidently say to you regarding the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.
30. "And so, because he was a prophet and knew that GOD HAD SWORN TO HIM WITH AN OATH TO SEAT one OF HIS DESCENDANTS ON HIS THRONE, Psalms 132:11; 2 Samuel 7:12; Psalms 89:3
31. he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that HE WAS NEITHER ABANDONED TO HADES, NOR DID His flesh SUFFER DECAY. Psalms 16:8-11
32. "This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses.
33. "Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear.
34. "For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says: 'THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD, "SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,
35. UNTIL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES A FOOTSTOOL FOR YOUR FEET."' Psalm 110
36. "Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ -this Jesus whom you crucified."

 

[Librarylady]

Soooo...what exactly is the point of this thread?

 

[DarkNoon]

Soooo...what exactly is the point of this thread?

Who knows. Even advised to take it to Patrons corner at the very least. Just hope everyone keeps the word "you" or "yours" out of their arguments here.

 

[DEFCON Warning System]

This thread is allowed.

 

[Lighthope]

During Christ's time, they were looking for a Messiah who would free them from Roman oppression.

Look at the question Jesus was asked. "Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?" This was about kicking Rome out.

When Jesus didn't do that, he wasn't the Messiah they wanted.

This changes nothing about Israel's relationship with God. Jews are still the apple of his eye, still the Chosen People. None of God's promises to them have been rendered invalid. "Replacement theology," in which some believe Christians have replaced Israel as God's people, is nonsense.

 

[william]

Soooo...what exactly is the point of this thread?

Just the prediction of the birth, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ in the Old Testament. I do not mean to offend anyone and if I have, I apologize. I respect everyone's right to believe and worship as they choose.

 

[william]

A word of caution.

Due to the current state of our culture, many Christians are pondering the reality of evil and perhaps some are realizing that Satan and demons are not theoretical. Because of this, there are influencers out there who would love to sell you a bill of goods about how Satan works.

Here are 3 points of advice:

1. If you are a Christian, you have already been delivered. You don't have to go to a specialized "deliverance minister." Satan has no (and cannot acquire) any "legal rights" over you."He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins." Col. 1:13-14"And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him." Col. 2:13-15

2. Test everything against Scripture. Most of what is taught in the deliverance space is information gleaned from extra-biblical experience, not Scripture. The devil is a master manipulator and liar. Please do not trust someone's experience with him to give you information about how demons work. He lies. "He [Satan] was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies." John 8:44

3. Satan is real. Demons are real. Christians are given explicit instructions on how to battle against his attacks. We are to resist him, speak truth to lies, and live a life of faithful obedience to God. We are never instructed to personally address or interact with Satan or demons. We ask Christ to deliver us from evil. (Matthew 6:7-13)"Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." James 4:7"We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ." 2 Corinthians 10:5 "Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him." James 1:12

 

[DEFCON Warning System]

Test everything against Scripture.

You'd be surprised how few people are willing to do this. And even when they do, scripture is secondary to their belief.

"Well, the Bible is old and doesn't fit into today's times", "God didn't mean that", "The Bible is edited and we don't know what it really said".

"I'm a Christian...as long as it is convenient."

 

[Irag8er]

Test Everything Against Scripture

1 Thessalonians 5:21
Test all things; hold fast what is good.

Satan is real. Demons are real.

1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

 

[GBS61]

<mod edit: attack/debate the religion, not memberss, yes saying "all Christians here are liars" is attacking members because only a short few members are publicly/openly Christians.>

 

[NuclearID]

I have locked thread. Staff can look at original post content and undo my actions and unlock thread. But that crossed my line and I am atheist.