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Trump's Tariff's - Updates

Gargolu said:
after bill signed the nafta act did you ever think it was going to happen to correct its self again and or how? cause pulling the economic woas from china is going to be very bad, we failed with russia cause they figured out how to make stuff inside the country as were the usa was acting like china to make a buck from anything and everybody but china is just nasty they wont play fair.
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Nafta was an awful trade agreement championed by HW that relied on near slave labor in Mexico. And it was corrected, in 2018 when it was replaced with USMCA. And the russians and chinese are allowed to have regional trade agreements, why shouldn't we? Just because they depended on our products does not mean our survival depends on them buying American. If anything it makes us more dependent on countries that we should be viewing as adversaries not friends, such as China and Russia. The Chinese also produce the large portion of their own products domestically, and would not have any issue adapting to a world with no American products. It would be hard but very much within the realms of possibility for them. And I say, good. Let them build their own shitty products, and let's bring back the American companies that pay American taxes and have them hire Americans. I have had longstanding agreement with Trump on placing Tariffs on China, just not so much the rest of the world. Because if we dealt with the China trade problems the problems with our European and international trade partners wouldn't even be noticeable. We rely on them they do not rely on us. That's not a good mutually beneficial relationship.
 
DarkNoon said:
⚠️
Fox News: There is a growing desire among the Republican Party in the US Congress to exclude Chinese companies' shares from trading on US stock exchanges.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1910476608667820056
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If we do that China will nuke the bond market by selling off nearly 1 trillion bonds and banning purchase or ownership of US bonds and stocks, and it will undermine the stock market itself. If your shares can vanish(because you cant sell them), why would you buy any?

Slowly moving away from China is the way to go. Not picking a fight when they can flip a switch and destroy the US economy in a matter of hours. Within hours, they can sanction America to the moon and back, and destroy both our economies within days. We can't really pull that off nearly as fast.

I hate China as much as the next guy, but maybe we could be a little slower about poking the dragon.
 
intel-bank said:
If we do that China will nuke the bond market by selling off nearly 1 trillion bonds and banning purchase or ownership of US bonds and stocks, and it will undermine the stock market itself. If your shares can vanish(because you cant sell them), why would you buy any?

Slowly moving away from China is the way to go. Not picking a fight when they can flip a switch and destroy the US economy in a matter of hours. Within hours, they can sanction America to the moon and back, and destroy both our economies within days. We can't really pull that off nearly as fast.

I hate China as much as the next guy, but maybe we could be a little slower about poking the dragon.
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China does not own a trillion in US securities.
You’re thinking of Japan who owns more than China and there not going to sell.
 
OReid said:
China does not own a trillion in US securities.
You’re thinking of Japan who owns more than China and there not going to sell.
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760 billion might as well be a trillion if they are unloaded onto the market. Not like humans can comprehend 760 billion or 1 trillion.

Also if China dumps bonds that leads to a lot more people dumping bonds. They own enough bonds to sent intrest rates up another 5% easily if they sold them off.

www.foxbusiness.com

China's trade war weapons: Rare earth ban and US debt dump could cripple American economy and defense

As U.S.-China trade tensions rise, experts warn Xi Jinping could cut rare earth exports or dump U.S. treasuries, threatening defense systems and economic stability.
www.foxbusiness.com www.foxbusiness.com

These aren't made up risks. If we win the trade war, we in fact did not, because we killed the Chinese economy, which killed the global economy. If they kill our economy, theirs is toast.

Trade war is war.
 
Yingyang said:
China US STOCK MARKET
approximately $540 billion at a rough guess.
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Value of listed Chinese companies is about a trillion. I imagine China wouldn't be happy if trillion is vaporized from their companies. They might just vaporize a trillion of ours. Which they absolutely have the ability to.

1744364061056.jpeg

I don't like this any more than the next guy, but China dominates global trade.

Oh, and we told all those blue countries to find other trade partners.

We should have slowly moved away trade by incentives, not tarrifs, and slowly, under their nose,like they took half the world from under our nose.
 
DEFCON Warning System said:
That's not evidence. That's just someone expressing an opinion. Cite statistics. Facts.
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Upon closer analysis I withdraw that remark. I got the overall impression after Hegseth fired CQ Brown Jr (labeling him a "DEI hire"), but the DOGE firings do not appear to follow a racial pattern. Apologies.

I stand by my other remarks.
 
intel-bank said:
Value of listed Chinese companies is about a trillion. I imagine China wouldn't be happy if trillion is vaporized from their companies. They might just vaporize a trillion of ours. Which they absolutely have the ability to.

View attachment 7075

I don't like this any more than the next guy, but China dominates global trade.

Oh, and we told all those blue countries to find other trade partners.

We should have slowly moved away trade by incentives, not tarrifs, and slowly, under their nose,like they took half the world from under our nose.
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The types of predatory loans that China tends to lend especially to African nations might lead them to align with the US. Other than that I agree with you. The tariffs should have been the nail in the coffin once they and their business partners had been dis-aligned. Also 145% effectively is completely unnecessary and almost seems like Trump want's them to invade Taiwan lmao.
 
intel-bank said:
760 billion might as well be a trillion if they are unloaded onto the market. Not like humans can comprehend 760 billion or 1 trillion.

Also if China dumps bonds that leads to a lot more people dumping bonds. They own enough bonds to sent intrest rates up another 5% easily if they sold them off.

www.foxbusiness.com

China's trade war weapons: Rare earth ban and US debt dump could cripple American economy and defense

As U.S.-China trade tensions rise, experts warn Xi Jinping could cut rare earth exports or dump U.S. treasuries, threatening defense systems and economic stability.
www.foxbusiness.com www.foxbusiness.com

These aren't made up risks. If we win the trade war, we in fact did not, because we killed the Chinese economy, which killed the global economy. If they kill our economy, theirs is toast.

Trade war is war.
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And if china’s export balance to the US is cut by a third or more.
Who’s going to buy that excesses production chinas got setting in their pipelines, Europe Latin america? Australias already told China no we’re not going there.

You say trade war is a trade war and that’s true. And that is exactly what we have been in for 20 years, an asymmetric trade war. Everyone talks about the threat of asymmetric warfare. But all these experts assiduously ignore the threat of asymmetric war carried out in trading relationships.

When Vietnam India SK Thailand Taiwan and Japan ( who does own 1.2 trillion in US securities ) agreed to negotiate with a freeze on tariffs while negotiating. China took a major hit.

What message has that sent to manufacturing in China? It means our markets are going to be smaller our foreign investments are going to be smaller.
The Yuan drops and what are they going to do dump gold, that pump will last about a 3 days of them flooding the markets.
China doesn’t buy US securities just as a sword to hold over the head of the US.
They own US securities for their fiscal stability. The same reason Japan and other foreign nations who cumulatively own between 11-12 trillion in US securities.

The blow China suffered this week economically possibly increased the chances of them trying something kinetic with Taiwan by 20%. That’s just my own personal WAG (wild ass guess).


This is a war it always has been a war. We were wrong to assume Chins wad going to adopt an open market trading model like Japan or SK. It was just life support for near death CCP in 73. It’s time to end the CCP under Xi.

What was it Bill Ackman said? “a patriot duty” to support your own nations economic health and vitality over others if there is no choice given.
 
Peter Griffin said:
The types of predatory loans that China tends to lend especially to African nations might lead them to align with the US. Other than that I agree with you. The tariffs should have been the nail in the coffin once they and their business partners had been dis-aligned. Also 145% effectively is completely unnecessary and almost seems like Trump want's them to invade Taiwan lmao.
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So far they haven't broke the trust with those loans. And the west has been exploiting Africa for centuries. Wouldn't you rather a bully that's actually developing your nation than a bully that actively keeps it down? Not saying China is good, but those nations aren't run by idiots. They chose to accept China's offers for a reason. And African people are people, who can think for themselves.

To quote Wikipedia (yes ik ik, wiki)
Many academics, professionals, and think tanks have rejected the hypothesis, concluding that China's lending practices are not behind the debt troubles faced by borrowing nations, and that Chinese banks have never seized an asset from any nation, and are willing to restructure the terms of existing loans.
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I mean, have you heard of IMF loans? They are among the worst loans a nation can get.

While they may eventually come knocking, China has better rep in Africa than the US by far now. A great chunk of the world prefers doing business with China over the west. The west has been hated in Africa for a while.
 
OReid said:
And if china’s export balance to the US is cut by a third or more.
Who’s going to buy that excesses production chinas got setting in their pipelines, Europe Latin america? Australias already told China no we’re not going there.

You say trade war is a trade war and that’s true. And that is exactly what we have been in for 20 years, an asymmetric trade war. Everyone talks about the threat of asymmetric warfare. But all these experts assiduously ignore the threat of asymmetric war carried out in trading relationships.

When Vietnam India SK Thailand Taiwan and Japan ( who does own 1.2 trillion in US securities ) agreed to negotiate with a freeze on tariffs while negotiating. China took a major hit.

What message has that sent to manufacturing in China? It means our markets are going to be smaller our foreign investments are going to be smaller.
The Yuan drops and what are they going to do dump gold, that pump will last about a 3 days of them flooding the markets.
China doesn’t buy US securities just as a sword to hold over the head of the US.
They own US securities for their fiscal stability. The same reason Japan and other foreign nations who cumulatively own between 11-12 trillion in US securities.

The blow China suffered this week economically possibly increased the chances of them trying something kinetic with Taiwan by 20%. That’s just my own personal WAG (wild ass guess).


This is a war it always has been a war. We were wrong to assume Chins wad going to adopt an open market trading model like Japan or SK. It was just life support for near death CCP in 73. It’s time to end the CCP under Xi.

What was it Bill Ackman said? “a patriot duty” to support your own nations economic health and vitality over others if there is no choice given.
Click to expand...
If the US is going to destroy the Chinese economy, why does any of that matter? Why would they care. Might as well destroy the US economy in the process.

Trade war is WAR. Trade wars can lead to diplomatic war, cyber war, even ground war. These things have real consequences, and trade war has been starting wars for millennia.

This isn't the right way to pull away from China and we are gambling with total economic destruction and actual war.
 
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