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Trump's Tariff's - Updates

I get it, but imagine a future where just possibly the tensions might be dialed down. I know as it stands now that is a stretch. But why not try for a future where nations aren’t locked and loaded at their boarders.
Would you say the same if it was Trump telling Israel to buy oil from Iran?
 
Would you say the same if it was Trump telling Israel to buy oil from Iran?
Well first I don’t see this as Trump “telling” India to buy oil from Pakistan.
It’s just an off hand possibility of the future.

Yes, yes I would. Who predicted the Abraham accords would continue to push forward.
Let’s remember before the IRG took control of Iran, that Israel had some of its best relations in the region with Iran.

Yes significant changes would have to be seen with Pakistan and India to see this kind of change. But living in a world where nations are continuously hashing out centuries old rivalries and not even trying is, well, just sad.
 
Well first I don’t see this as Trump “telling” India to buy oil from Pakistan.
It’s just an off hand possibility of the future.

Yes, yes I would. Who predicted the Abraham accords would continue to push forward.
Let’s remember before the IRG took control of Iran, that Israel had some of its best relations in the region with Iran.

Yes significant changes would have to be seen with Pakistan and India to see this kind of change. But living in a world where nations are continuously hashing out centuries old rivalries and not even trying is, well, just sad.
Well, not to say we haven't tried. Each government and each Prime Minister of India has tried their best to normalise relations with Pakistan. Indira Gandhi in 1971 gave Pakistan back a large chunk of land after the war and 91,000 POW as a gesture of goodwill. Modi invited Nawaz Sharif to his 1st swearing in, went to his grand daughter's wedding breaking protocol. Got Pathankot attack in return gift and then allowed "joint investigation" with ISI.

 
Well, not to say we haven't tried. Each government and each Prime Minister of India has tried their best to normalise relations with Pakistan. Indira Gandhi in 1971 gave Pakistan back a large chunk of land after the war and 91,000 POW as a gesture of goodwill. Modi invited Nawaz Sharif to his 1st swearing in, went to his grand daughter's wedding breaking protocol. Got Pathankot attack in return gift and then allowed "joint investigation" with ISI.

I don’t disagree and you know what it might not come to pass.
 
That is not a good way to talk to your ally. Past 25 years of building trust, all gone down the drain.
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You know I like and respect India, at least I try and give them that in my post.

So Russia refuses to negotiate and “will end this war when all their military objectives are met”.

What are the actions of a an ally saying that continues to economically support Russia who invaded and continues to prosecute the war in Ukraine.

Should we just indefinitely ignore and wink and nod at India continuing to buy oil from Russia?
Which is more of a slap in the face of 25 years of relations?

If it is not strategically beneficial for India to take this step. Then that’s fine, but it’s naive to think there might not be cost with it. Like mean tweets
 
You know I like and respect India, at least I try and give them that in my post.

So Russia refuses to negotiate and “will end this war when all their military objectives are met”.

What are the actions of a an ally saying that continues to economically support Russia who invaded and continues to prosecute the war in Ukraine.

Should we just indefinitely ignore and wink and nod at India continuing to buy oil from Russia?
Which is more of a slap in the face of 25 years of relations?

If it is not strategically beneficial for India to take this step. Then that’s fine, but it’s naive to think there might not be cost with it. Like mean tweets
Anyone who supports Trump's tariffs is a follower of Satan.:devilish:
 
You know I like and respect India, at least I try and give them that in my post.

So Russia refuses to negotiate and “will end this war when all their military objectives are met”.

What are the actions of a an ally saying that continues to economically support Russia who invaded and continues to prosecute the war in Ukraine.

Should we just indefinitely ignore and wink and nod at India continuing to buy oil from Russia?
Which is more of a slap in the face of 25 years of relations?

If it is not strategically beneficial for India to take this step. Then that’s fine, but it’s naive to think there might not be cost with it. Like mean tweets
It’s the selective outrage. The US buys LEU from Russia, Europe buys gas and rare earth materials. China buys far more than us, yet we got worse tariffs. It’s also the cosying up with Pakistan at the same time.
We used to be fully dependent on the USSR. In 25 years we have made major strides in weaning off them. Please try to understand these things take time. A lot of our military hardware is Russian and we can’t risk completely alienating them.
 
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@OReid You say that India buying Russian oil is a slap to 25 years of relations. Fair. What about Trump working on oil deals with the Pakistanis? Is that not a similar slap?
First your correct it is selective outrage. And it is a shock to the diplomatic world norms. And I have been much harsher on Europe than anyone about this.
Second if by now it is not evident that Trumps tariff statements are always opening negotiation positions and that we have been pursuing and signing regional and bilateral agreements with almost all of our trading partners. And that the final terms of those deals are no where near what the beginning negotiations were. So I’m not losing any sleep over what a US India trading terms might be.

Third we’re back to the war in Ukraine. Most agree the war is unjust and that Russia should be countered. Not all but most.
What I find most intriguing is so many of these ardent supporters for more military support to Ukraine. I assume with the intention of either repelling Russia or bringing about a fair negotiated settlement.
Ignore and dismiss the elephant in the room of nato states still buying oil from Russia at record levels. Or as I said before previous US administrations doing nothing to help provide alternative supplies for NATO.
Or the insistence that Russia is a near term threat to NATO. Yet are outraged when the US expects nato states to increase their defense spending.

Last and not so much to your point, why is it “satanic” for the US to impose or negotiate with the threat of tariffs. Yet virtually every other nation in the world uses import barriers tariffs or VAT to either tax monetize goods or from the US, control the level and price of imports as they effect their own nations, or outright block the imports of some US products.

The notion of a completely free and unencumbered export/import relationship amongst nations is a myth that never existed.

Nations around the world do and have been using import barriers of one kind or the other almost for ever. Now the US is insisting these trade issues be revisited and renegotiated. And somehow it’s the EOTFW!

Where were all the nay sayers when the Biden admin extended and in some lines increased tariffs that Trump had imposed on China in his first.
You didn’t even know the Biden admin did that because the network news didn’t tell you how to think about it.
 
If you get Tariffs it because your country has tariffs on the USA. We can:

A) Ignore them. Not happing, not anymore. No one is peeing on our head and telling us its raining

B) Reciprocal tariffs, as in 4=1/4

C) Retaliatory tariffs.

D) A deal. “What’s kinda deal? A deal deal. Maybe the guy is a Republican”


Your Country is stuck a D for the moment. Trump live to make and announce “a deal”. Use that.
 
To address this:
1) I agree we have been imposing very
high tariffs and I have always advocated for them coming down. It is my understanding though that we are working on a trade deal with the U.S. as we speak. We granted concessions even before the negotiations began as a gesture of goodwill and were one
of the first countries to approach the US for a trade deal. Yet, we got hit with tariffs higher than any other country. Even China got off easier.

2) The problem isn’t so much the tariffs. The issue is the way they’ve been communicated. Calling the Indian economy dead is not only a factually wrong statement but it really doesn’t go down well. Trump’s thing might be mean tweets but that doesn’t mean everyone needs to accept it.

3) This, combined with the recent bonhomie with Pakistan. They don’t even HAVE oil reserves! And he joked about selling us Pakistani oil. Called the Pakistani army general for lunch at the White House and offered to mediate between India and Pakistani concerning Kashmir. This has always been the Pakistani position in this conflict, with the Indian position remaining that this is a bilateral issue.

It’s not the tariffs per se. It’s the U.S. moving closer to Pakistan, too, while insulting us in the process. Very damaging to a relationship where trust was built painstakingly.

@Torch @OReid
 
1) You are absolutely correct. I cannot understand what has happened. IF reports are true, India did exactly like you said. Yes, you all impose what are frankly massive tariffs, but you did in fact move first to work something out. From your view and partially mine India seems to be golden and sincere in thought and deed.

Here is the problem if someone skimmed 40% of your money for 35 years but then came to you and said they would only take 15% of your money, how would you feel or react?

It’s a problem that will take time. India, the largest democracy and English speaking county in the world has never been allied with the west. I’m sure it’s due to your horrific treatment by Britain.

The USA after our independence stayed away from Britain and aligned with France until WW1 where we still fought with the French not the British. It will take time. How much? I think another generation or so, far removed from colonialism, rising to power in India will help.

2) I’m continually amazed that people get upset over the stupid shit that is said online. What happen to the children’s rhyme “stick and stones”?
What defines your economy as dead? What are the parameters? Trump’s statement is simply a meaningless value designed to provoke a response.

Truefully if you look in a dictionary you are not going to see an entry for India ever having a dynamic economy… yet.

You will. You are educating people is breaking down class burial, and someday it will be your time. Probably after China implodes.

3) we simply don’t see it that way. There is no years long period of trust. India absolutely did not have our back in the Cold War. India seems to take every opportunity to oppose us. You are military aligned with Russia and China. Buying all that Russian crap that won’t be delivered on time can’t be maintained and frankly doesn’t work as advertise just to save a little money to tweak the US’s nose. We have a much better relationship with the lying pos in Pakistan than with India. Why? I been lying to us about hidind OBL and supporting the insurgency against the US. and …well that’s it. They’re lying backstabbing assholes but they buy our equipment and they feed us Intel.

So India has been taking advantage of the USA for many decades. (I would too). Now India has decided to Fuck us over only half as much. Now India wonders why we in the USA are not cheering.
 
1) You are absolutely correct. I cannot understand what has happened. IF reports are true, India did exactly like you said. Yes, you all impose what are frankly massive tariffs, but you did in fact move first to work something out. From your view and partially mine India seems to be golden and sincere in thought and deed.

Here is the problem if someone skimmed 40% of your money for 35 years but then came to you and said they would only take 15% of your money, how would you feel or react?

It’s a problem that will take time. India, the largest democracy and English speaking county in the world has never been allied with the west. I’m sure it’s due to your horrific treatment by Britain.

The USA after our independence stayed away from Britain and aligned with France until WW1 where we still fought with the French not the British. It will take time. How much? I think another generation or so, far removed from colonialism, rising to power in India will help.

2) I’m continually amazed that people get upset over the stupid shit that is said online. What happen to the children’s rhyme “stick and stones”?
What defines your economy as dead? What are the parameters? Trump’s statement is simply a meaningless value designed to provoke a response.

Truefully if you look in a dictionary you are not going to see an entry for India ever having a dynamic economy… yet.

You will. You are educating people is breaking down class burial, and someday it will be your time. Probably after China implodes.

3) we simply don’t see it that way. There is no years long period of trust. India absolutely did not have our back in the Cold War. India seems to take every opportunity to oppose us. You are military aligned with Russia and China. Buying all that Russian crap that won’t be delivered on time can’t be maintained and frankly doesn’t work as advertise just to save a little money to tweak the US’s nose. We have a much better relationship with the lying pos in Pakistan than with India. Why? I been lying to us about hidind OBL and supporting the insurgency against the US. and …well that’s it. They’re lying backstabbing assholes but they buy our equipment and they feed us Intel.
1)
It’s a valid point that reforming a system after years of imbalance takes both practical adjustments and time to rebuild trust. Still, it’s important to recognize that when India moved first with goodwill concessions, we weren't asking for the past to be forgotten, but for a genuine signal that positive steps are being reciprocated. Progress in tough relationships requires partners to notice and respond to forward-leaning actions. Also, this hasn't been something we have imposed solely on the U.S. - we have tariffed every single country in the world, the U.S. has not been singled out.

On the broader point about time and colonial legacy: I agree that historical wounds from colonialism and Cold War misunderstandings don’t fade overnight, and that trust is generational, not transactional. However, India’s willingness to approach the West, its English-speaking workforce, and its democratic institutions isn’t new. What’s needed now is consistent recognition from the U.S., in both policy and tone, that India’s efforts to move closer are valued and not taken for granted.

Government to government communications and the words of a President/Prime Minister cannot be compared to children's rhymes and it frankly serves as a vast oversimplication of what has been said.
While “sticks and stones” applies in personal life, in international relations, words and symbolism matter. Dismissing damaging remarks as meaningless overlooks their influence, especially in shaping public opinion and policy environments in both countries. When influential voices disparage India’s economy or social progress, it doesn’t just sting; it undermines political capital for leaders who are invested in deeper ties. These remarks have effectively made it politically damaging for Modi to work out a fair trade deal with the U.S.


2)

As for describing India’s economy as “not dynamic,” the reality is that India is the world’s fastest-growing major economy, with a rapidly rising middle class, world-leading startups, and massive digital infrastructure advances. Yes, there are structural challenges, but no major economy overcomes them overnight. By 2050, we're expected to reach a GDP of $30 trillion. In the past, yes, the economy had been majorly mismanaged but steps have been taken to correct that and they are paying off.
India expected to become USD 30-trillion economy by 2050: HDFC Bank Chairman Atanu Chakraborty


In short: real trust is built when actions and words come together, when both sides recognize progress and invest in the relationship beyond short-term frustrations. History matters—but so does present effort. And India is clearly showing, with deeds as well as words, that it’s committed to making this partnership something genuinely new.

3)
It's inaccurate to claim that India alone is responsible for a lack of trust in U.S.-India relations or that it consistently opposes American interests. During the Cold War, mistrust was shaped by the United States’ frequent support for Pakistan including military aid even as India pursued a non-aligned policy to protect its sovereignty, not as a deliberate stance against the U.S.

India’s closer relationship with Russia was a response to regional security needs, particularly as the U.S. continued supporting India’s principal rival. Regarding military alignment and arms purchases, India’s defence sourcing has diversified significantly beyond Russia, with substantial acquisitions from the U.S. and Europe, as well as active security cooperation within U.S.-led frameworks, such as the Quad.

India is not "militarily allied" with either Russia or China and remains deeply distrustful of Chinese intentions. I don't get how you can say we're militarily allied with China when we have half our nukes pointed at them and made ICBMs that conveniently have just enough range to hit Beijing. We've fought a war and multiple skirmishes with them and they're second only to Pakistan in terms of distrust and enmity.
India has had a historical dependence on Russian arms, but this is changing. Over the last decade, India has actively diversified its military suppliers, including the U.S., France, and Israel.
As of 2025, less than half of Indian arms imports come from Russia, a dramatic decrease from 80% two decades ago
 
Conversely, the U.S.-Pakistan relationship has often prioritised short-term strategic gains over genuine trust, overlooking serious concerns such as Pakistan’s sheltering of insurgents and Osama bin Laden, as you said. In the present era, U.S.-India relations are closer than ever, built on growing defence, technology, economic, and democratic ties, demonstrating that past mistrust was mutual and not the product of Indian hostility or duplicity.
After gaining independence in 1947, India aspired to chart an independent foreign policy path, choosing non-alignment rather than siding with either the U.S. or the USSR. However, multiple factors pushed India steadily towards a closer relationship with the Soviet Union, largely because the United States rejected many of India's key interests and security needs during the Cold War.

Early on, U.S. policymakers were frustrated by Prime Minister Nehru's refusal to join the U.S.-led bloc and pressured India to "get on the democratic side immediately." India, for its part, aimed to avoid entanglements and maintain neutrality, especially given its anti-colonial and anti-imperial stance123. U.S.-India relations quickly became strained due to conflicting approaches: the U.S. prioritised anti-communism, while India viewed global affairs mainly through an anti-imperialist lens, focusing on decolonisation and sovereignty.

Crucially, the U.S. soon forged a close alliance with Pakistan, providing it with substantial military and economic aid, especially during the 1950s and in the Indo-Pakistani wars of 1965 and 1971. This directly threatened India’s security and frustrated New Delhi’s attempts for American support, particularly regarding the Kashmir conflict. The U.S. also imposed sanctions on India after its 1974 nuclear test and repeatedly critiqued India's non-aligned stance, further souring relations.

On the other side, the USSR provided diplomatic, economic, and later extensive military support, most notably after signing the Indo-Soviet Treaty of Friendship and Cooperation in 1971, which helped India defend its interests in the face of U.S.-backed Pakistan. For India, Soviet support was essential to counterbalance threats from both Pakistan and, after 1962, China. India could not secure its strategic autonomy without major power backing, and the U.S. had made clear it would not fill that role at critical moments.

In 1971, East Pakistan sought to break away from its political union with West Pakistan. India backed this secession effort and, to deter potential Chinese intervention in support of West Pakistan, signed the Indo-Soviet Treaty of Friendship and Cooperation with the Soviet Union in August 1971.
This is a key moment that explains why India has remained distrustful of the U.S. & why working on trust is essential -
The United States deployed its 7th Fleet and the United Kingdom sent the aircraft carrier HMS Eagle during the 1971 Indo-Pakistani war to deter Indian aggression against Pakistan. The Soviet Union, responded by dispatching the Vladivostok Fleet of nuclear-armed submarines, which drove the American & British naval forces away. I agree that the USSR is not Russia, yet this is the point that shaped the distrust that is still being worked on. You can dismiss those comments as simply mean tweets or words but they aren't that when it comes to international relations. They're reckless and deeply damaging.

In summary, it was the repeated U.S. rejection of India's core security and diplomatic concerns and Washington's preference for alliances with Pakistan that led India to cultivate a strong partnership with the USSR. This relationship was never a formal alliance, but it was vital for India to maintain its sovereignty and counterbalance a hostile regional environment, especially when doors in Washington remained closed
 
It’s more complicated than that and while personally I respect India’s efforts at non-aligned status and independence. There are consequences in everything.

Like I said I don’t expect too much blow back from the trade issues between US and India.

You speak of past colonial hurts India worked through.
What about India’s moral equivalency of the colonial repression of Ukraine by Russia. It’s as old as India’s colonial experience with Britain. And in some specific events much much harsher.

Strategically India and the US have a choice regarding the way forward regarding China. India will simply have to weigh how much their strategic ambiguity over Ukraine is worth.

As far as mean tweets, it’s Trump. He’s a blunt sometimes abusive NEw Yorker. Weigh his actions over his words is all I can say. Then decide.
 
India’s economy as “not dynamic,” the reality is that India is the world’s fastest-growing major economy, with a rapidly rising middle class, world-leading startups, and massive digital infrastructure advances. Yes, there are structural challenges, but no major economy overcomes them overnight. By 2050, we're expected to reach a GDP of $30 trillion.
It may (will) be Dynamic but it hasn’t been and it isn’t now.

We are arguing over semantics. I think we both can agree that India had higher tariffs on United States in the past and that India’s economy is going to explode in the future.

India is going to be a major forced to be reckoned with. Certainly a soft power Superpower. A world military superpower will require hundred of Trillions in dollars and many years of investment. The only peoples I see having that ability in the future are India and Brazil.

Indonesia is huge, but I just don’t think they’re ever gonna get their shit together. China is huge and certainly your rival, but will eventually decline or maybe even implode as the United States becomes poor and poor and buys less and less from China. Their entire economy seems to be based on exporting goods to the US and stealing military and commercial secrets without any repercussions.
 
@Torch @OReid
I can absolutely agree that we have had higher tariffs that were borderline unfair and I can fully understand that we need to rectify those and achieve balance. The only point I would like to differ with is that when you show goodwill it's nice for that to be recognised, you know. Getting insulted even though you made sincere efforts doesn't go down well.
 
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