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UA-RU | May 1st-20th | DISCUSSIONS

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Obreid said:
I believe I understand what you are saying but diplomacy and public perception continued on during conflict. Statements like Putin has got to go or degrade Russia only acts a fodder to support Putin at home. It justifies all the crazy histrionics Putin has been spouting for the last 25 years.
Of course there are battles of civilizations and those timelines are measured in centuries not years or decades.

And if now in this current state of conflict my government makes a stated policy change that we must also “flip” the Russian leadership. Then my support of current US foreign policy will be removed.
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So Nick S are you disagreeing with me not being on board flipping Russian leadership or expanding the goals in Ukraine of only to defend Ukraine
 
william said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1520192494687956992
How about FIREPOWER! Think that's kind of important! These idiots are gonna get us in a hot war! IMO
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Diversity = strength, which is not the same thing as firepower, but it is just as important. And as someone else pointed out, we don't need to brag on our military's firepower. In fact, the less bragging that is done on that topic the better.
 
expat42451 said:
www.dailymail.co.uk

Putin 'will have cancer operation and transfer power', insider claims

Vladimir Putin is set to transfer power to fearsome ally and head of the Security Council Nikolai Patrushev as he undergoes cancer surgery. The dictator has reportedly delayed the operation.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

Credit to RiffRaff for the second source verification he posted in Reports....

Got polonium??

Wonder if fear of plonium isnt the reason he has been sitting so far from everyone in meetings....
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People should not call him “Putler” but instead “Stalinito” or “Little Stalin” because it’s more reasonable to compare his conditions to Stalin.
 
RiffRaff said:
Diversity = strength, which is not the same thing as firepower, but it is just as important. And as someone else pointed out, we don't need to brag on our military's firepower. In fact, the less bragging that is done on that topic the better.
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You know it’s ironic everything about the US was the incorporation of many culture into one. It is a hallmark and a strength. It’s absolutely messy but it has always moved towards this inclusion of “many into one”
And I continue to support that bulwark of American culture.

But I personally just don’t see the need to create and identify ad Infinitum evermore diverse and personalized subcultures.
Using these diversities as political campaign tools is just muck raking at its finest.
Making diversity and sub group rights a never ending carousel of political and human rights causes is tedious and does nothing for the public good.

That’s how we end up with thousands of American women marching in the streets of Washington all wearing pink hats shaped like labia.
Such a high point in American history
Grandma why does great grandma and all those women have on hats that look like Quim?
 
RiffRaff said:
Diversity = strength, which is not the same thing as firepower, but it is just as important. And as someone else pointed out, we don't need to brag on our military's firepower. In fact, the less bragging that is done on that topic the better.
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And your right a wise ruler shows his weakness to his adversaries and conceals his strengths.
Where have we read that concept before?
 
Obreid said:
I believe I understand what you are saying but diplomacy and public perception continued on during conflict. Statements like Putin has got to go or degrade Russia only acts a fodder to support Putin at home. It justifies all the crazy histrionics Putin has been spouting for the last 25 years.
Of course there are battles of civilizations and those timelines are measured in centuries not years or decades.

And if now in this current state of conflict my government makes a stated policy change that we must also “flip” the Russian leadership. Then my support of current US foreign policy will be removed.
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What do you think, will it be fair when Russia tries to degrade the US?
Russians support Putin. Russians support invasion. Putin is very peacefull and calm leader, he can wait. I believe any other leader, like Medvedev would announce a general mobilization and attack Ukraine from all sides by all forces. West doesn't understand that.
Why do you think Russia invaded Ukraine? What is the real reason? Russians have their own reason and I don't think russian soldiers will give up until goals will be reached. Hope, I'll not be banned here for my alternative point of view.
 
Russia is free to have those reasons and live with them as they like inside Russia.
Putin made a calculated decision to invade a sovereign nation.
Now he and Russia will have to deal with that.
Given the migration time and events states follow from diplomacy to posturing to open war. Russia needs to decide if they want to be in open war with forty nations at once.

How safe will eastern Russia be from China. How many Chechnya died. What will Russia do when Chechnya determines Russia is weak enough they can break away. What will Moscow do when they are weakened enough that those In charge in Nur-Sultan decide it’s time to throw off Russia.

Not one of those forty nations were actively pursuing a course to invade or overthrow the Russian government.
Many of them were significantly involved with Russia in the international trade of energy technology industrial equipment and pharmaceutical.

I think Russia invaded Ukraine because its leadership needed a boogie man to shift blame for its leaderships failures.
We will disagree on this I’m sure but oh well. We’re way beyond that now are we not.

Any nation that has to militarly invade another nation because of some vague historic right or needing a security buffer to keep Baba Yaga off their boarder is a weak and insecure nation.

I personally want nothing to do with overthrowing or invading Russia.
I want Russia to be Russian and respect their boarders and there security and right to exist.
I do not support them starting a war to conquer a neighbor for virtually any reason. Short of if Ukraine had invaded Russia, which is laughable.
 
RiffRaff said:
Just for my own edification, is Margarita Simonyan equivalent to Alex Jones or Dan Rather in the US? This might help us decide how much to pay attention to what she says.
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Probably more like Rachel Maddow.
I was shocked when MSNBC hired her straight from Democracy Now.
 
Obreid said:
Russia is free to have those reasons and live with them as they like inside Russia.
Putin made a calculated decision to invade a sovereign nation.
Now he and Russia will have to deal with that.
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Yes, it was very hard decision. Putin tried to avoid this war for 8 years.

Obreid said:
Russia needs to decide if they want to be in open war with forty nations at once.
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Well, Russia has no other choice. This is not the first time in history that Russia has been forced to fight with the combined army of several countries.

Obreid said:
How safe will eastern Russia be from China.
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Relations between China and Russia are improving significantly last time. I know few chinese and they say, that their government forbids criticizing Russia. China sees US as its main enemy. I don't think China has any reason to attack Russia.

Obreid said:
How many Chechnya died. What will Russia do when Chechnya determines Russia is weak enough they can break away. What will Moscow do when they are weakened enough that those In charge in Nur-Sultan decide it’s time to throw off Russia.
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Impossible. Chechnya is very loyal to Russia today. High losses just make them more angree agains Ukraine. If you are talking about Nur-Sultan - It is Kazahstan. It is true, that Ukrainian scenario is possible in that country. Hope, that Kazah people will make correct choice.

Obreid said:
I think Russia invaded Ukraine because its leadership needed a boogie man to shift blame for its leaderships failures.
We will disagree on this I’m sure but oh well. We’re way beyond that now are we not.
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That doesn't make sense. I can read in english language and I see, that western media completely ignores the Russian point of view and shows only how it is looks from Ukrainian side. You can't have an independent opinion if you only listen to one side of the conflict.

Obreid said:
I personally want nothing to do with overthrowing or invading Russia.
... Short of if Ukraine had invaded Russia, which is laughabl
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Every country has it's own "red lines". Crossing those lines will trigger that country. NATO marked Russia as enemy long before the conflict in Ukraine. And NATO keeps expanding towards Russian border. It is question of surviving Russia. Try to imagine the situation, when russian nuclear missiles are located in Canada and targeting USA cities. Today Canada is a friend with USA, you don't even have a strict borders between countries. Same as Ukraine and Russia before. Imagine that Russia funded a riots in Canada and it's government was overthown and new, pro-russian government got power in Canada. What USA will do in that case?

Obreid said:
I want Russia to be Russian and respect their boarders and there security and right to exist.
I do not support them starting a war to conquer a neighbor for virtually any reason.
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USA never respected borders and governments of countries they didn't like. List of countries invaded by the US is really big.
 
Yury said:
What do you think, will it be fair when Russia tries to degrade the US?
Russians support Putin. Russians support invasion. Putin is very peacefull and calm leader, he can wait. I believe any other leader, like Medvedev would announce a general mobilization and attack Ukraine from all sides by all forces. West doesn't understand that.
Why do you think Russia invaded Ukraine? What is the real reason? Russians have their own reason and I don't think russian soldiers will give up until goals will be reached. Hope, I'll not be banned here for my alternative point of view.
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I consider Vladimir Putin a ruthless dictator, but I have always viewed him that way. Not just in last couple of years/months. But I also agree that the West is misreading Russia with its assumption that if Putin is out of the way, this will immediately all go away. I hope they are right, but that doesn't sound like the Russia viewpoint. The problem is we can only get the Information Warfare perspective on Russia, either all pro-war or all anti-war. The reality is likely somewhere in the middle, but where we don't know - through the fog of Information Warfare.
 
Yury said:
USA never respected borders and governments of countries they didn't like. List of countries invaded by the US is really big.
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That is certainly true. But two wrongs don't make a right.
No more than Russia's invasion of Ukraine would justify a full-scale USA invasion of Cuba.
Russia may have had a reason for its actions, which I understand the concept, but if the goal was to protect the Donbas breakaway region, then the Russian military didn't need to go to Kyiv, Lviv, etc. The expanded invasion of Ukraine was a choice, which will not end well for the Russian people. What the Russian people need to decide is what were the actual goals for the invasion, and can they negotiate a settlement with Ukraine. Russia will be no more able to control a defiant Ukraine, than the USA would be able to control a defiant Cuba.
 
Obreid said:
As some hear have claimed or pointed outbthat this is part of some grand scheme to replace Russia leadership snd repress Russia as a nation all along. I don’t necessarily agree with that totally. Maybe that is part of reason and motivation behind Russia’s actions. It certainly feed that Russian phobia.

Thou I will never accept this as a legitimate reason for Russia to invade Ukraine. It is however a reason or excuse for Russian leadership and population to claim and actually believe there are foreign interest out to change there gov all along and thus support and continue this fight or expand the war conventionally of nuclear.

It is the scope of this war to support and help defend Ukraines independence not to punish, overturn, or replace Putin. Full stop

I don’t care if we do or don’t execute cyber attacks on Russia. I’m sure that they are doing what they can as well.

But we have to keep the support of the war based on getting Russian troops out of Ukraine. This is not the time to be overtly talking about degrading Russia or replacing Putin.
It just gives them PR fodder at home and abroad.
If and When this becomes official nato or US foreign Policy, absent secondary military actions by Russia on a nato nation.
Then my support for the war will radically transform.

Ukraine is not an excuse or stepping stone for the west to try and start flipping governments.
Don’t give this as a excuse for Russia to rally support
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Like I said, these idiots are gonna get us in a hot war! Even if the policy is regime change you don't say that out loud to the whole world! :mad:
 
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