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UA-RU | May 1st-20th | DISCUSSIONS

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Why I said provide source for such claims. No one else here is aloud to make claims without proof and he is no exception.
Or even just a logical explanation of why.
And then at that point you can be swayed or politely agree to disagree.
People and nations are not always going to agree. More times than not it does not lead to a fight or war.
Sometimes it does.

Russia claims they have to have national territories between them and the west or they feel threatens.
Ok they are welcome to feel that way. I just will not accept it as a excuse for starting a war.
Just as I rejected my nations reasoning to flip Libya and do the same in Syria.
It to was wrong I believe.
I also no longer accept the counter charge that the US has done bad stuff as well.
If past bad actions are a limiting factor in nations right to have a say in geopolitics. Then Russia needs to keep quiet and to themselves as many claim the US should.
 
Pro-Russian people in Odessa are really suffered under Ukraine occupation. Their native language is prohibited. Education is only in Ukrainian language. People are keep tortured and killed by ukrainian nazi. Same situation in whole eastern part of Ukraine. Western media will never told you this.


Kaliningrad is a trophy. Also southern sakhalic and Kuril islands. It is a payment for that horrible offensive that took around 26,000,000 of russian lives.


I'm not a Putin. I haven't been in Kaliningrad and never spoke with people from that city. I don't know, maybe people in Kaliningrad will be happy to joing Germany, who know. Ask them. As for Odessa and Mariupol, I personaly know people from those cities, refuges lives in a next door. Talked to them a lot and they told me all horrible things that ukrainian nazi did.
You keep saying Ukrainians are Nazis, but when was the last time your country actually had free and fair elections? Also, you do realize that Zelenskyy is Jewish, right?

Have you ever thought that your government, run by a brutal dictator, is lying to you?
 
Why I said provide source for such claims. No one else here is aloud to make any major claims without proof and he is no exception.
Yes the rule was reports had to be backed with a credible source. Discussion is different.
Discussion should be free speech and opinions etc. In his case he is a local over there. And probably has a better idea.
Your correct with claims he makes, eg. education system. This should be accessible for proof. As far as freinds and neighbours go. He could ask if they can prove it and send info.
But still this section should remain more open in so many ways. Restrictions shouldn't really be necessary in Discussion. Those that don't like or doubt may ask more for their reasons , or keep scrolling. Other sections need more info more sources etc totally understand that. However if Discussion is limited to what suits Americans and sole west supporters then you limit yourselves to suit your own narrative. Not a good look. You have an international community which is extremely beneficial. Don't lose sight of this because someone has different information, experiences, feelings, beliefs, thoughts-opinions. Otherwise you might aswell shut down access .That may well shut down your abilities to learn , receive info quickly etc etc.
Authority and power can be a dangerous thing as this is what this subject matter and site is also about. Don't become your own enemy.
 
Yes the rule was reports had to be backed with a credible source. Discussion is different.
Discussion should be free speech and opinions etc. In his case he is a local over there. And probably has a better idea.
Your correct with claims he makes, eg. education system. This should be accessible for proof. As far as freinds and neighbours go. He could ask if they can prove it and send info.
But still this section should remain more open in so many ways. Restrictions shouldn't really be necessary in Discussion. Those that don't like or doubt may ask more for their reasons , or keep scrolling. Other sections need more info more sources etc totally understand that. However if Discussion is limited to what suits Americans and sole west supporters then you limit yourselves to suit your own narrative. Not a good look. You have an international community which is extremely beneficial. Don't lose sight of this because someone has different information, experiences, feelings, beliefs, thoughts-opinions. Otherwise you might aswell shut down access .That may well shut down your abilities to learn , receive info quickly etc etc.
Authority and power can be a dangerous thing as this is what this subject matter and site is also about. Don't become your own enemy.
I do understand what your saying and yes a person might have personal experience that is valid.
So we are left with two issues.
The presentation of what is known and accepted fact. It can be readily sourced from multiple open source locations. Statements that make claims of historic fact should infact be historically accurate at least to some degree.
Statements of personal or national mood or Interpretation don’t have to be supported by facts because they are reaction to whatever the situation might be. They are opinions

Let’s say Ukrainians are nazis, undoubtably some are. The same claim or accusation can be made and is as verifiable for Some Russians and Americans and Australians.
Thus when I here Russian accusation that Ukraine of being nazis are horrible people and kill innocents. But I have seen SS uniform patches on Ukrainian separatist commanders. Or even the founder and leader of Russia’s Wagner group having SS tattoos on his chest.
I’m left with the question who’s more naziish? Russian accuse Ukrainians of being nazis but it is open source knowledge that Russian have their own fascist tendencies and they too have been involved in some pretty nasty war time abuses.

With that in mind when I hear claims of such and such are nazis from either side it’s dust bin information.
It’s of no quality or value.
Just like the counter accusation levied against america having been engaged in wars of aggression and consequently Americans have no business passing judgment of interceding in any way.

You’ve been here long enough there is virtually no one here that would deny that Americans have maxed some pretty serious mistakes regarding our foreign policy.
But it is a historic fact that Russia to has had its own colonizing period and wars of aggression and been involved in some pretty horrendous war time crimes. Ask a pole or German how Russian soldiers treated them as Germany retreated. Lot of personal experiences their painting Russia in some ugly light. So had Russia forfeited it’s right to imprint its will or opinion in geopolitics, no.
No one has made that charge.
The only issue is was it acceptable for Russia to invade and try to conquer Ukraine.
I have not read any rational argument from the Russia perspective that justifies invading a sovereign Nation. I’ve seen Ukrainians are nazis and Russia has a right to a secure boarder.
Well we’ve pretty much answered the issue that you will likely find some fascist son of a bitches in most of the countries involved in the standoff. So that charge is void.
Regarding feeling secure in their boarders.
Russia’s military is supposedly in the top 3of4 biggest militaries in the world and have one of the largest nuclear weapons arsenal in the world.
What does it say about a people that have that kind of military power at their disposal and yet still claim to need to have buffer states to protect them.
It really doesn’t follow that their claims of insecurity are real or valid.
People are free to discuss their opinions within reason. But that also should be willing to defend them, or at the very least agree to disagree without invading a independent nation.
 
To my knowledge, Ukrainian citizens are allowed to leave the country if they wish, so no Russians are being held against their will by the Ukrainian government.
Yes. It was possible before 2022. Russia is full of refugees - people from Odessa, Kharkov, Kiev and other Ukrainian cities. They left their homes and now they live in Russia. Other people didn't want to left their homes and still live in Ukraine and wait Russians.
Today Ukrainian citizens in eastern and southern parts can't leave their cities. It is very dangerous. Ukrainians shot civilians who wants to leave city.
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Therefore, it is an irrefutable fact that Crimea, Donetsk, and Luhansk are currently being occupied by Russia, which is violating both international law and a treaty they signed with Ukraine to guarantee their borders.
Crimea, Donetsk, and Luhansk held vote. People there voted to separate from Ukraine. They don't want to be in Ukraine.
By the way, there was no vote in Kosovo and that doesn't stop USA from bombing Belgrade.

You can spin it however you wish, and you make up or parrot whatever excuses you wish, but the fact of the matter is Russia is the aggressor nation here. They attacked and invaded a sovereign nation who had not attacked or invaded them. Let me repeat that for those of you in the cheap seats: Ukraine did not attack, invade, or provoke Russia in anyway to warrant the destruction Russia has been inflicting on Ukraine. I don't care about your "but's" or "however's" - Russia is in the wrong. And if you are supporting Russia's actions over the past two months, then you are also wrong, and history will judge you and your country accordingly.
You can't talk about violation international law, while your country doesn't respect it. USA invaded a lot of countries and bring destructions and death to them.
 
Might check to make sure you don’t live to near a Russia military base. Maybe consider moving while you have time.
I live near a russian military base, there are few of them in my city. I'm not going to move out, it is pointless.

If it leads to a nuclear exchange then so be it.
You cannot take actions like this and make threats like you have and not expect to get punched back.
The nuclear exchange will kill you too. USA and Russia has so many nuclear warheads that they are enough to destroy the whole world. People in countries like Brazil and Australia will die too, doesn't matter, that they are not involving in that conflict. Nuclear exchange is a suicide for humans.
 
Why I said provide source for such claims. No one else here is aloud to make any major claims without proof and he is no exception.
It is not work for western constructs. Everyone here says that Putin is a tyrant, while russians are fully support him and his power. People really vote for him. Of course it is not 100% support, but around 70% of russians like Putin.
 
Yes, I definitely know that, which is why I have been following this site for years.
Overwhelming majority of USA literally considers itself untouchable and could care less.
But worse, I also think there are many in the USA NatSec community that have persuaded themselves otherwise. Too many reckless public statements. Too much war fever.
It is not 1945 with George Patton wanting to fight Russia (and being retired.)
The wild and reckless advocacy for cyberwar, etc., those believing their IW, and who are also growing up during a generation believing itself invincible.
And they want to be able to fight like it is 1941. I completely understand the emotion.
They want to be rolling thunder and wipe out the Russian troops, free Ukraine, and maybe give Moscow something to remember them by.
The idea of massive cyberwar killing untold millions, the idea of thermonuclear warfare, ah... that's just "negative thinking" to some in today's NatSec world. "Them Ruskies is weak."
They consider themselves young and strong, and they believe THEY will survive.
But someone among the rational adults needs to remind them that is an alternate reality.
World War is not a video game.
Finally someone says it how it is besides the classical minority. Most of the people on this site that's really in agencies know we aren't untouchable..we have a lot..and I mean a lot of frauds and flexes on this site. They project like a fed but haven't even passed an interview to get to the polygraph phase.

I say that a lot of people in the fed are always shook by even smaller events. You don't know till you know on some real shit.
 
You keep saying Ukrainians are Nazis, but when was the last time your country actually had free and fair elections? Also, you do realize that Zelenskyy is Jewish, right?
Ukrainian nazi was a power that allow ukrainian oligarch get the power. That's why Ukrainian government supports them. Zelensky is an actor, I don't think that ukrainian nazi respect him.

Have you ever thought that your government, run by a brutal dictator, is lying to you?
any proof?
 
I live near a russian military base, there are few of them in my city. I'm not going to move out, it is pointless.


The nuclear exchange will kill you too. USA and Russia has so many nuclear warheads that they are enough to destroy the whole world. People in countries like Brazil and Australia will die too, doesn't matter, that they are not involving in that conflict. Nuclear exchange is a suicide for humans.
Yawn!
Maybe Russia should quit hinting at it as something other than a deterrence from a nuclear attack.
But you can’t do that because that’s not Russia’s policy anymore. It also a tool of resolve conventional local wars or to strike fear in your adversaries to improve the negotiations.
 
It is not work for western constructs. Everyone here says that Putin is a tyrant, while russians are fully support him and his power. People really vote for him. Of course it is not 100% support, but around 70% of russians like Putin.
I see him as he is, he’s the elected leader who does govern with an iron fist by western standards.
But that’s ok if that’s who the Russian people want then the invasion of Ukraine is on their heads as well.
 
Yawn!
Maybe Russia should quit hinting at it as something other than a deterrence from a nuclear attack.
But you can’t do that because that’s not Russia’s policy anymore. It also a tool of resolve conventional local wars or to strike fear in your adversaries to improve the negotiations.
yes, you are right. We all know, that USA doesn't touch countries with the red button. North Korea for example. USA didn't invade it only because they have nuclear warhead. What do you think will happen after China invade Taiwan? Will USA fight for the island or just step back and impose sanctions and maybe supply Taiwan with some weapons?

I see him as he is, he’s the elected leader who does govern with an iron fist by western standards.
But that’s ok if that’s who the Russian people want then the invasion of Ukraine is on their heads as well.
A lot of russians are support that invasion. People write Z on their cars. Banners with Z on every street in any russian city. Take a look at russian tiktok, people feel free there to express their opinion. Russian social network are also full of Z, V and O letters. That makes me think, that Russia will reach all it's goals in Ukraine. Nation is support army and government.
 
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Finally someone says it how it is besides the classical minority. Most of the people on this site that's really in agencies know we aren't untouchable..we have a lot..and I mean a lot of frauds and flexes on this site. They project like a fed but haven't even passed an interview to get to the polygraph phase.

I say that a lot of people in the fed are always shook by even smaller events. You don't know till you know on some real shit.
No ones untouchable.
Explain what a fraud is exactly.
 
So this is what I’ve concluded from today’s and yesterday’s discussions.
NATO supporting Ukraine is an act of war against Russia.
Ok check, war between nato and Russia has commenced.
Russia has categorically stated they will not withdraw from Ukraine for multiple reasons.
NATO is doubling down to not stop the support to Ukraine even if it carries on into 2023.

Russia has said that if the war in Ukraine goes badly for Russia there is a possibility of Russia using nuclear weapons. Purely as a defensive measure of course.

From that we can conclude WW3 has already started even if large scale kinetic action has began. Further if Russia does not achieve their goals conventionally in Ukraine and it appears they might lose then nuclear weapons might possible be on the table.

Good now that we have that cleared up there is no longer a need to discuss it anymore.
We are not diplomats so discussion are irrelevant.
Until this invasion is settled we are enemies.
 
So this is what I’ve concluded from today’s and yesterday’s discussions.
NATO supporting Ukraine is an act of war against Russia.
Ok check, war between nato and Russia has commenced.
Russia has categorically stated they will not withdraw from Ukraine for multiple reasons.
NATO is doubling down to not stop the support to Ukraine even if it carries on into 2023.

Russia has said that if the war in Ukraine goes badly for Russia there is a possibility of Russia using nuclear weapons. Purely as a defensive measure of course.

From that we can conclude WW3 has already started even if large scale kinetic action has began. Further if Russia does not achieve their goals conventionally in Ukraine and it appears they might lose then nuclear weapons might possible be on the table.

Good now that we have that cleared up there is no longer a need to discuss it anymore.
We are not diplomats so discussion are irrelevant.
Until this invasion is settled we are enemies.
Most definitely it sounds like WW3 has begun, people have to realise that the modern world doesn't work like the old days, there won't be formal declaration of war by either side, Russia will never directly target NATO until its time to reach for the nuclear weapons. Everything today is so "indirect" and defacto. Even Russia calls their invasion a "special military operation" like how Americans call their invasions as "bringing democracy and fighting terrorism". Large scale military movements will be disguised as military drills.

What I expect to see is a contionous stream of NATO weapons being supplied to Ukraine with the weapons getting more advanced as time goes on, from there Russia will target NATO hardware directly within Ukraine ofcourse, it looks like Russia also has plans to invade Moldova.

The only way I see this getting solved is if one side backs down.
 
So this is what I’ve concluded from today’s and yesterday’s discussions. ....
You are right. I agree with your conclusion.

From that we can conclude WW3 has already started even if large scale kinetic action has began.
sorry, what do you mean? War is not officialy declared even by Ukraine.
I believe that it looks like one of the many cold war conflicts. Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan. Where one of side was baked by USSR and other side was baked by USA.
 
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You are right. I agree with your conclusion.


sorry, what do you mean? War is not officialy declared even by Ukraine.
I believe that it looks like one of the many cold war conflicts. Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan. Where one of side was baked by USSR and other side was baked by USA.
Well I don’t see Russia backing down, I don’t see nato backing down and I do t see nato backing down.
Russia has said repeatedly that western military aid signet is seen as an act of aggression and it risk a wider war.
So call it a special military operation. Or what ever you want it’s a war
 
Yes the rule was reports had to be backed with a credible source. Discussion is different
Not at all. You can't make wild claims anywhere on the forums without sources.

You can spin it all you want YingYang but just because he is Russian doesn't mean he gets special treatment and gets to crap misinformation everywhere.
 
You can spin it all you want YingYang but just because he is Russian doesn't mean he gets special treatment and gets to crap misinformation everywhere.
I don't let Americans (left or right) either crap their party politics misinformation/conspiracies too. So don't think I am singling out people or nationalities.

Discuss with facts, logic, and sources. Not misinformation, lies, and wildly inaccurate poorly conceived claims.
 
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