US, Australia & UK to announce landmark new defence pact helping Australia develop nuclear sub capabilities

Ben Dhyani

Active member
I understand that during the negotiations for the submarine contract, French offered to Australia a nuclear sub. Australia wanted that sub, but without the nuclear propulsion, they wanted conventional propulsion. The French warned that the modifications to do this would make it more expensive but went ahead and submitted a proposal, they won the contract in 2016. I can see why the French are upset, if Australia wanted nuclear subs, all they had to do was to say so at any time.
 

DarkNoon

Power Poster
I understand that during the negotiations for the submarine contract, French offered to Australia a nuclear sub. Australia wanted that sub, but without the nuclear propulsion, they wanted conventional propulsion. The French warned that the modifications to do this would make it more expensive but went ahead and submitted a proposal, they won the contract in 2016. I can see why the French are upset, if Australia wanted nuclear subs, all they had to do was to say so at any time.
I see more along the line Australia was pushed by Britain & US to make a defense pack to counter China. More convenient too as US & Britain are very strong naval adversaries of China which Australia needs.

Obviously US & British are giving them more of a deal to do this. Maybe US & Britain will help maintain the nuclear subs cost wise.

Either way it's for the right cause to counter China. France just needs to relax, plenty of other countries that want submarines. They are taking the medias attention in a very wrong direction. Should be a unified front against China, not bitch crying and infighting with western allies.
 

ralfy

Active member
I see more along the line Australia was pushed by Britain & US to make a defense pack to counter China. More convenient too as US & Britain are very strong naval adversaries of China which Australia needs.

Obviously US & British are giving them more of a deal to do this. Maybe US & Britain will help maintain the nuclear subs cost wise.

Either way it's for the right cause to counter China. France just needs to relax, plenty of other countries that want submarines. They are taking the medias attention in a very wrong direction. Should be a unified front against China, not bitch crying and infighting with western allies.
The main trading partner of AU is CN. The main trading partner of the US except for the EU is CN. The fifth largest trading partner of the UK is CN.

Even the main trading partners of nearby countries, like NZ and ID, is CN.
 

Obreid

Power Poster
Out of context on multiple levels.
The point being made was about the balance of power between two world powers.
His premise, prosperity (trade) is worthless without security.
If your not secure you can’t very well prosper. So it is in Australia’s best interest to continue to align with the US because it will provide the level of security and freedom Australia is historically used to.

The remark at the end was partially tongue and cheek. Don’t make the US your enemy because we can be nasty. Two thoughts that was given to a friendly audience in non-threatening manner.
secondly If someone is an actual enemy then the should expect us to be nasty. That’s part of being an enemy.

The speaker was putting forward the choice Australia has to make between militarly aligning with China or the US and GB.
The speaker is a professor who puts forward historically the assumption that China will likely not continue to be a passive military player, and at some point they will become offensive in the use of their military.
Basically don’t assume China will continue to simply be a regional power solely interested in economic development and maintaining military for defensive purposes.
so his remarks about the US being really nasty to their enemy’s is a footnote in the context of his overall presentation
 

ralfy

Active member
Out of context on multiple levels.
The point being made was about the balance of power between two world powers.
His premise, prosperity (trade) is worthless without security.
If your not secure you can’t very well prosper. So it is in Australia’s best interest to continue to align with the US because it will provide the level of security and freedom Australia is historically used to.

The remark at the end was partially tongue and cheek. Don’t make the US your enemy because we can be nasty. Two thoughts that was given to a friendly audience in non-threatening manner.
secondly If someone is an actual enemy then the should expect us to be nasty. That’s part of being an enemy.

The speaker was putting forward the choice Australia has to make between militarly aligning with China or the US and GB.
The speaker is a professor who puts forward historically the assumption that China will likely not continue to be a passive military player, and at some point they will become offensive in the use of their military.
Basically don’t assume China will continue to simply be a regional power solely interested in economic development and maintaining military for defensive purposes.
so his remarks about the US being really nasty to their enemy’s is a footnote in the context of his overall presentation
It's the other way round: it's prosperity that keeps that security intact. Where do you all that debt to obtain military assets came from?
 

Obreid

Power Poster
It's the other way round: it's prosperity that keeps that security intact. Where do you all that debt to obtain military assets came from?
Novel but incorrect when taken from a foreign relations perspective.
no security from external forces your prosperity is at risk of being stripped from you.
Domestically yes prosperity generally fosters security.
and why are you refuting the video post you provided
 

DarkNoon

Power Poster
France is returning its Ambassadors.

What did it accomplish? Nothing. Just made the western global community hate the french gov more.

Just shows french institutions are not capable of governing foreign affairs. But history already tells us that.
 
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DarkNoon

Power Poster
...all this time global media shows infighting among western allies & taking away focus from a unified front against China & Russia which are the real problem.

What really came of this for france or anyone? Literally nothing other than making us look weak onto our enemies even further.
 

Saguenay

Active member

France’s Macron to talk to Biden amid crisis over submarines:

French government needs to get over itself. This is no crisis & if it is considered one than people really need to redefine the word crisis. No one really cares how France feels about this because it effects no one on a grand scale & China is the real problem.

Also if France can't get behind a alliance countering China than France needs to step down as a international player for the West.

Kinda low on how they are stealing media attention from what really matters like countering China with a unified front from the West.

Note I have nothing against the people of France. Just their laughable instuitions that has failed them for centuries.
These days, it's the American institutions that are laughable.
 

Obreid

Power Poster
...all this time global media shows infighting among western allies & taking away focus from a unified front against China & Russia which are the real problem.

What really came of this for france or anyone? Literally nothing other than making us look weak onto our enemies even further.
I don’t put that much blame on France, a deal is a deal. At the least, it seems to have been handled poorly by all sides.
The French are an successful sovereign ally. Those relationships always need fostered not strained.
 

DarkNoon

Power Poster
I don’t put that much blame on France, a deal is a deal. At the least, it seems to have been handled poorly by all sides.
The French are an successful sovereign ally. Those relationships always need fostered not strained.
It's just frustrating to see the media show infighting among allies. It's just cringey and very tasteless for france to pull this fit.
 

Obreid

Power Poster
Yeah we’re doing so well with our allies right now.
Europe is having their balls busted over energy prices. The US is no longer producing surplus oil and gas. And NATO is considered creating their own army. The Abraham accords are collapsing Left all that military equipment in Afghanistan.
it’s been a great 8 months.
Remember how we were never going to have a vaccine in 12 months. And jo and Kamala wouldn’t support trumps vaccine, and jo saying no one received a vaccine till he took office. Now their mandatory unless you work at the capital or White House.
I miss mean tweets
 

Obreid

Power Poster
It's just frustrating to see the media show infighting among allies. It's just cringey and very tasteless for france to pull this fit.
France has been our longest standing ally and for the first time in those 245 years they withdrew their ambassador. Something big happened, I’m not sure what.
 

DarkNoon

Power Poster
France has been our longest standing ally and for the first time in those 245 years they withdrew their ambassador. Something big happened, I’m not sure what.
Well until someone anyone says other wise this looks like a media stunt and very distasteful.
 

rudemarine

Power Poster
I understand that during the negotiations for the submarine contract, French offered to Australia a nuclear sub. Australia wanted that sub, but without the nuclear propulsion, they wanted conventional propulsion. The French warned that the modifications to do this would make it more expensive but went ahead and submitted a proposal, they won the contract in 2016. I can see why the French are upset, if Australia wanted nuclear subs, all they had to do was to say so at any time.

To date France still had not gave them detailed plans or a start date and the sub would have been grossly behind the 8 ball in tech the day they would have started building it.

France was not going to give them anything advanced for their sub and everything in the sea currently would have been able to find and sink them.

Since it's going to take so long for us to get them building their own nuclear subs why don't we just lease them some of our Los Angeles class subs as they are being retired?

Hell if we have some in Mothballs why not sell them to Australia and refit them with the latest BAE systems so we are not handing over our classified equipment to the Chinese should they somehow capture one.
 

rudemarine

Power Poster
Well until someone anyone says other wise this looks like a media stunt and very distasteful.

France has always been an Ally at their convenience. They know they dropped the ball on the deal and were screwing Australia just for money, only thinking about themselves and not the reality that a war with China is a very real possibility.

France is going to get paid a good chunk of money for Australia backing out, so this is all about France having a pity party because their defense industry constantly looses out to the US.
 
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