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Wages & Readiness

mmulqueen10

Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2022
Location
United Kingdom
Definitely not. I usually lurk but I made an account just to reply to this.

Of the people I know personally who "want" this, who I have spoken to directly about the topic (about 11 people so far from my peer group, which is 20-30 yo range) it's because they believe the world is only going downhill, their economic and future prospects are dead in the water (especially compared to those who came before them), the political landscape is broken and they have no reason to be optimistic. Seeing that even if they "pull themselves up by the bootstraps" their purchasing power in a middle class job will be less than a minimum wage one when their parents were their age. They see shelves going empty and friends going hungry because food banks are overrun. They want this because they are suicidal, but don't want to leave everything behind, or anyone to be sad about them. So they sit, and they hope, and they pray that something - whether its God, climate change, nukes, total systemic collapse - will free them of this life.

Of this group most of their parents beat them as well as other forms of discipline, if that's what you are referring to.

It's a much more serious, much sadder epidemic than something that can just be explained away as bad parenting and video games. It's an epidemic of deeply suicidal people praying for an escape.
Are you from the UK? You put food banks and empty shelves and it just made me wonder. There's research by University of Glasgow that backs you up. I don't want to take this off topic by posting a psychological thesis... 🤣 But message me on here if you want. 🙂
 
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Are you from the UK? You put food banks and empty shelves and it just made me wonder. I work for a healthcare provider in the UK in psychology services. There's research by Glasgow University that backs you up. I don't want to take this off topic by posting a psychological thesis... 🤣 But message me on here if you want. 🙂
Canada - we're also experiencing empty shelves and food banks en masse alongside single bedroom apartments costing running up to the $2,000+ range outside of big cities. Wages haven't changed since the 1970s in this country.
Housing is another reason for this "epidemic" that I forgot to mention in my original comment as well - most rental listings right now are for single hallways in 2br apartments shared with 3-6 international students from India, and a lot of rentals say INDIANS ONLY on them as well, or WOMEN ONLY, etc... young people right now are facing extremely difficult times while the older generations say they're just whining, then turn around and wonder why they all want it to just be over in a flash via Putin.
 
Insightful post. Definite food for thought. The first thought I had was, wow, this description sounds like post WWI Germany, and we know where that led to.
No is just a sign of weak whinny people.
Life’s fucking hard it’s been hard for most generations. You work you plan sometimes those plans.

They’ve been told their life sucks and they’ve believed it
 
Well wages in Canada have almost doubled in Canada since 2000.
So I’m not so sure what contortions are necessary to make wages flat since the 70’s
1. It appears you cannot read a graph. The change from 1998 to 2021 was not double - it was six dollars which is partially accounted for by minimum wage increasing taking the lowest out of the equation https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/14-28-0001/2020001/article/00006-eng.htm

2. See here for an article to break the stagnation down for you https://globalnews.ca/news/3531614/average-hourly-wage-canada-stagnant/

3. Did you completely miss where a mod already asked to keep on topic earlier on this page? Due to that I am not responding further in this convo
 
Well wages in Canada have almost doubled in Canada since 2000.
So I’m not so sure what contortions are necessary to make wages flat since the 70’s
Because I forgot to include it in my last reply, here is Statistics Canada's stats on those wages. If you limit your search to men (which you would need to for this to be a valid comparison due to different factors impacting women entering the workforce over this time period), you can see the yearly average income from 1976 to 2020 broken down by year.


The MEDIAN has gone DOWN by $10,000. The average has stayed the same. There is no argument to be had here at all; it is objectively true that wages have stagnated, as evidenced above.

Yet food has skyrocketed, rent has skyrocketed, education has skyrocketed... and you're implying the new generation doesn't have the deck stacked against them at all compared to the old when they're coming in with the same income and thousands of % higher cost of living?
 
1. It appears you cannot read a graph. The change from 1998 to 2021 was not double - it was six dollars which is partially accounted for by minimum wage increasing taking the lowest out of the equation https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/14-28-0001/2020001/article/00006-eng.htm

2. See here for an article to break the stagnation down for you https://globalnews.ca/news/3531614/average-hourly-wage-canada-stagnant/

3. Did you completely miss where a mod already asked to keep on topic earlier on this page? Due to that I am not responding further in this convo
Yes your right those wages in your sites are adjusted to cpi. That means they adjust the wage based upon inflation.
So they are not real wage numbers.
You cannot say wages are stagnant and prices are higher and then site a cpi adjusted reporting to prove it.
Statistics like this are manipulated like this all the time to solicit a desired proposition.

Yes things cost more what you should be asking is why. Your purchasing power is not stagnant because wages have not kept up. There stagnant because the cost of things have continually rose.
So raise wage to meet some idealized number. What then the cost of stuff will go up again to reflect that increase cost. Then raise wages again, and the cost of stuff goes up again

What is it that has driven prices and cost of living higher continually?
It’s taxes the below 100000 earner in the states depending upon where they live and commute can be approaching 50% of gross income taxed when you combine state, federal, property, gas and energy, sales tax and all the other various fees and charges.
Half a fucking year of work to feed one of the most wasteful and incompetent entities recognized today.

Regulations and business taxes have driven the cost of goods and services even higher.
Taxes to receive electricity at your home, taxes to have a phone and internet,
Taxes to regulate how fast we drive and in some locals how much we drive.

What is the one constant we all can mostly agree on? Government is mostly inefficient and ineffective at managing itself.

Why is it we all turn a blind eye to the most wasteful, questionable, and often times corrupt entity in our society? That one entity in our society that “consumes” the vast majority of our income. And I say “consumes” because government produces very little in return for the major consumer of our income.

I had an argument with a checker as a gas station. She was pissed her rent went up. I pointed out did she consider what her landlord might be paying in property taxes. “We’ll not that much”
I pointed out in our local it might be approaching 1/3 to 1/2 her rent payment.
Then she argued well landlords shouldn’t be able to factor their property tax into her rental payments.
I just walked out it was a losing battle.

Sure it’s expensive, I’d say student loans today could easily be classed as indentured servitude. There exorbitant and wasteful and they they have interests structures on them on the back end that approach usery.
In the US those student loans are not a product of greedy corporate bankers.
But a government managed and enforced system.

The abuser and drain in our economies is not business, it government.
In Canada I suspect the problem is even somewhat worse.

So raise minimum wages again. It makes no difference, the cost of everything will just go up against….. rinse and repeat.
Go after the root cause of the inflationary system.
 
1 - I did not advocate for increasing minimum wage, why argue against a point in your head instead of one I'm making?
2 -
It is pegged to CPI, however, CPI does not adequately cover cost of living changes. It costs between 15 and 30 times as much to get to that income which then comes out of the side in student loan payments, but more importantly, CPI does not adequately factor in rent. Rent is 6.25% of the Shelter component of the CPI - which means it has a disproportionately small impact on our official inflation numbers. The average rent is $1,976 right now including people already in rent controlled apartments - new listing are going 2800-3000+ for 1 bedroom in cities and 2000+ for 1 bedroom outside cities. In 1975 it was $211. Adjusted for CPI, the 1975 rent in current dollars would be $1088.

This is a near doubling to what is currently the most critical part of our cost of living crisis, when adjusted for inflation. If you make that $50,000 avg salary before taxes, paying today's equivalent of what you would've in 75, you have some money left over after rent, with the current average rent, your entire 2 week pay check is swallowed whole and then some, and if you're just graduating now and needing to find your footing, a single bedroom apartment will run you most of your salary. After bills and food, you're living on credit. God forbid there are any emergencies.

That, or you do what is an increasingly common living situation in Canada, which is multiple roommates in a tiny unit.
 
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