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DEFCON 4 | Europe Crisis | December 2021

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bartok said:
excuse me, but I wonder why this kind of news is not enought to downgrade the Defcon Level to 5.
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Because we don't know what is going to come out of those talks and there is still a lot of military ready to do something.

As far as the talks go, Russia has made some demands that NATO isn't going to agree to. And the U.S. is poised to offer a pretty arrogant list of "diplomatic conditions" on Russia. (We haven't seen the list. This is just in keeping with how the U.S. does things.)

So while we have hopes for the talks, and maybe something will come out of them, we think the talks will not be productive.
 
Dr.Seltsam said:
This clearly fearmongering on a very gross scale. According to this https://russianforces.org/navy/ Russia has 11 SSBNs with 656 warheads. The US has 14 Tridents SSBNs with 24 Trident missiles each and 10 warheads on each missile makes 3360 warheads. Slighty more than Russia which nwever in history was the submarine danger silly movies like "Hunt for Red October" suggest. Furthermore Russia has 17 nuclear powered SSNs compared to 29 Los Angeles Class, 19 Virginia Class and 3 Seawolf Class boats, together 51 SSNs. Not to mention the four Ohio class converted SSGNs. Nowhere is the russian navy near apoint where she "is all over the NATO warships ready to sink them". Quite the opposite would be the case if the russian navy would ever venture to the high seas. Concerning the CSGs there are three of them floating and another three could be raised very quickly to deployment ready status. But nothing of this will happen.
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Russia has 12 boomers and 3 more very lethal boats are about to be floating. Russia in total has 12 spy boats and 58 combat boats in active service! That’s 48 attack subs. Our ships and boats are rusting heavily because they are not being maintained properly due to covering so much area all the time being the sea police.

Russias newer boats are very quiet and can shake the US trailing boat at times.

We only have four boomers at sea at anyone time with low yield warheads that have to be accurate to destroy hardened targets like bunkers and silos.

Every Russian sub is going to have nuclear weapons aboard when ours dont! Russian naval cruise missiles with nuclear warheads again. It will be a little while before we do that to our slow Tomahawks that are easy to knock down today when Russian cruise missiles are very fast and hard to.

As a big time American Patriot I have been screaming for over a decade to get updated missiles but we have been caught sleeping at the wheel. Most of our ships are pathetically out gunned.

The Zumwalt and the LCS ships are a prime example of what our navy has become. Building ships to fill a role that has never been needed in the last 50 years
 
novaB said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1476248745729789953
https://twitter.com/x/status/1476253167784443905
^^^^
"Munich accord 2.0 incoming"?
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If Putin agrees to it, you know someone is going to suffer greatly. Short of Russia being brought into NATO, which would never happen today.

I see Russias announcement that they are going to hold war games early next year with Belarus is announcement from where and when they plan to hit NATO from not just Ukraine, if talks go as sideways as Joes thinking these days.

Belarus to quickly cut off the Baltic nations by sweeping into Kaliningrad to create a new land corridor for their forces to go back and forth essentially cutting the Baltic states off. As this fight gears into its second or third day Russian forces will storm into Ukraine and trash the whole party.

NATO will be forced to come to the Baltic states aid to hold the lines if they have the will for a huge naval battle to force their way into the Baltics or just push from their strong point in Poland and not risk a naval battle that can get out of hand fast, throwing tactical nukes to sink battle groups.

Trying to send in a huge contingent of airborne troops will mean a huge air war to get the cargo planes in safely.
 
Obreid said:
.

My recommendations to negotiations would be for Russia to offer staged return of the territories but with continued Russian involvement in them for security guarantees of the residents. Long term lease of the port at Sevastopol and guaranteed land and air access for Russia.
Immediate and staged roll back of all sanctions on Russian officials and citizens. Except those mutually agreed upon to be involved in human trafficking and sex trade.
Removal of iskanders from Belarus, status quo in Kaliningrad.


My apologies, I got on a role with my question pertaining to reports and went on a discussion commentary.
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Considering Russia starting point reduction kalingrad forces to 10 000 men is good idea. Kalingrad shall be without long rage missles- no s400, no bastion no islander,. No drill closer than 100 km from nato state borders.
Russia shall reduce ground forces to readonable level forces close to Baltic states. No fly withed off transponders.

Russia shall also stop recognizes two created by them republic. It just preliminary demands .
 
krzepice1976 said:
Considering Russia starting point reduction kalingrad forces to 10 000 men is good idea. Kalingrad shall be without long rage missles- no s400, no bastion no islander,. No drill closer than 100 km from nato state borders.
Russia shall reduce ground forces to readonable level forces close to Baltic states. No fly withed off transponders.

Russia shall also stop recognizes two created by them republic. It just preliminary demands .
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I could agree with you on that. Have to start somewhere.
 
krzepice1976 said:
Considering Russia starting point reduction kalingrad forces to 10 000 men is good idea. Kalingrad shall be without long rage missles- no s400, no bastion no islander,. No drill closer than 100 km from nato state borders.
Russia shall reduce ground forces to readonable level forces close to Baltic states. No fly withed off transponders.

Russia shall also stop recognizes two created by them republic. It just preliminary demands .
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Russia would just say what we do on our soil is none of anyones business but we can talk about your missiles in the Eastern NATO countries (the ones that don’t exist).

I say we make some tractor trailer rigs that look completely normal and all civilian yet carry nuclear naval strike missiles 😆. Big hydraulic ram under the missile inside the box that raises up the missile and then it sends a Wonder bread surprise…
 
rudemarine said:
I say we make some tractor trailer rigs that look completely normal and all civilian yet carry nuclear naval strike missiles
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Jimmy Carter's plan of moving missiles around on an underground railroad was impractical, but he had the right idea.

The U.S. needs to hide its land-based missiles. Can't destroy what you can't see. Russia already does this and so does China.
 
DEFCON Warning System said:
Jimmy Carter's plan of moving missiles around on an underground railroad was impractical, but he had the right idea.

The U.S. needs to hide its land-based missiles. Can't destroy what you can't see. Russia already does this and so does China.
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Yes unfortunately Russia and China ahead in this topic and civilian survivability. No wonder we are in the shit they have covered more improved more and being ahead in so many aspects of war - aswell as bonus nuclear recovery goes well. The west only balance on that rope chances -= East net
=West rocks
Both suffer one with more population the other with less. Now in the end . Higher population wins. 🤔🤨🧐😯😓
 
DEFCON Warning System said:
Jimmy Carter's plan of moving missiles around on an underground railroad was impractical, but he had the right idea.

The U.S. needs to hide its land-based missiles. Can't destroy what you can't see. Russia already does this and so does China.
Click to expand...

Yeah you and I have always had the same opinion on the new systems being road mobile. Hopefully our military has some new very deep hardened military bunkers in which to keep the fight going, rather than rely on flying command aircraft that can and likely will be found and shot down.

Probably not before the codes are sent but the fog of war will be insane and very smart choices will need to be made and if they can reverse the action to save hundreds of millions they need to be alive to do it.
 
DEFCON Warning System said:
Jimmy Carter's plan of moving missiles around on an underground railroad was impractical, but he had the right idea.

The U.S. needs to hide its land-based missiles. Can't destroy what you can't see. Russia already does this and so does China.
Click to expand...
The plan was far from impractical, it had quite different intentions as some hobby strategists might think. Here you will find this idea revisited https://thebulletin.org/2021/04/dee...-underground-will-make-the-whole-world-safer/
 
rudemarine said:
Russia has 12 boomers and 3 more very lethal boats are about to be floating. Russia in total has 12 spy boats and 58 combat boats in active service! That’s 48 attack subs. Our ships and boats are rusting heavily because they are not being maintained properly due to covering so much area all the time being the sea police.

Russias newer boats are very quiet and can shake the US trailing boat at times.

We only have four boomers at sea at anyone time with low yield warheads that have to be accurate to destroy hardened targets like bunkers and silos.

Every Russian sub is going to have nuclear weapons aboard when ours dont! Russian naval cruise missiles with nuclear warheads again. It will be a little while before we do that to our slow Tomahawks that are easy to knock down today when Russian cruise missiles are very fast and hard to.

As a big time American Patriot I have been screaming for over a decade to get updated missiles but we have been caught sleeping at the wheel. Most of our ships are pathetically out gunned.

The Zumwalt and the LCS ships are a prime example of what our navy has become. Building ships to fill a role that has never been needed in the last 50 years
Click to expand...

There have been many good patriots like yourself bringing this to anyone's attention who would listen. I bring up Jeff Nyquist alot here. that guy's been beating the same drum for 30 years, and we're fast approaching the time he calls "one clenched fist." It doesnt end well for the US or Europe, and it's probably too late. China and Russia have some distinct advantages and they're not about to let us rearm.

The problem is that Congress for the last 20 years or more has been willfully stupid when it comes to this topic. So much so it's as if they WANT the US to lose the next great war. I feel like a sitting duck. We have no civil defense at all either. Nothing. Im pretty sure the PTB's plans are to bug out at let the rest of us fend for ourselves.
 
If the West follows through with its threats to shut Moscow out of the SWIFT financial transaction system, other states will feel the consequences, Russia’s finance minister has cautioned.

Speaking as part of an interview with Rossiya 24 TV channel on Thursday, Anton Siluanov warned, “who benefits from the disconnection from SWIFT? No one.”

“They only screw themselves over, as they say,” the minister said, pointing out that “Russia is a participant in the global market.”

According to Siluanov, such a move would hinder European companies that actively trade with Moscow.

“What will happen to European consumers of hydrocarbons [if SWIFT is cut off in Russia]? How will they pay us? Or will they refuse our exports? No, of course not. Will they have to settle the payment? Yes,” he explained.
www.rt.com

West would ‘screw itself’ by cutting Russia off from SWIFT – Moscow

If the West follows through with its threats to shut Moscow out of the SWIFT financial transaction system, other states will feel the consequences, Russia’s finance minister has cautioned.
www.rt.com www.rt.com
 
Dr.Seltsam said:
The plan was far from impractical, it had quite different intentions as some hobby strategists might think.
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Oh sure it was impractical. (The article you linked didn't really discuss Carter's vision.)

Now mind you, this was a long time ago and I am remembering the details as a 10 year old would. But from what I recall, Carter planned to have an underground railroad move a single missile between 10 and 20 different launch silos, the theory being that it would be cost-prohibitive for the Soviets to bomb each and every potential launch point.

Let me caveat that by pointing out that I didn't say it was a bad idea. Just impractical.

Personally, I think road mobile launchers are much better, though. Less accurate, but with today's tech, that shouldn't be a problem.
 
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