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Should the US have Dropped "The Bombs" on Japan?

Are we sure of that? During the WW2 Japan changed its military doctrine, imposing the absolute prohibition to surrender. Furthermore, it takes 2 bombs to surrender, not one. Sure US would have win even without the nukes, but with heavy losses.
One of the dirty little secrets of the War in the Pacific is that as soon as Germany surrendered, the Soviet Union turned its attention to Japan. They declared war on Japan on August 8, 1945, which Truman was well aware of in advance, and overwhelmingly invaded Japanese-occupied territories in China. One of the reasons Truman chose to drop the bomb on August 6th was so that America could demonstrate its new powerful weapon - not so much to the Japanese, but to the Soviets, *before* the Soviet invasion occurred.

You can dislike or disagree with me all you want, but this information can be verified through numerous reliable historical sources. The US had a choice on dropping those two bombs, and it had nothing to do with saving the lives of American soldiers. It had everything to do with showing the entire world - especially the Soviet Union - that America not only had these powerful new weapons, but was wiling to use them.

This is an irrefutable historical fact.
 
One of the dirty little secrets of the War in the Pacific is that as soon as Germany surrendered, the Soviet Union turned its attention to Japan. They declared war on Japan on August 8, 1945, which Truman was well aware of in advance, and overwhelmingly invaded Japanese-occupied territories in China. One of the reasons Truman chose to drop the bomb on August 6th was so that America could demonstrate its new powerful weapon - not so much to the Japanese, but to the Soviets, *before* the Soviet invasion occurred.

You can dislike or disagree with me all you want, but this information can be verified through numerous reliable historical sources. The US had a choice on dropping those two bombs, and it had nothing to do with saving the lives of American soldiers. It had everything to do with showing the entire world - especially the Soviet Union - that America not only had these powerful new weapons, but was wiling to use them.

This is an irrefutable historical fact.
There is talk, and there is action. And only the USA has actually demonstrated such action.
I believe that historical aspect needs to be assessed in Defcon status.
 
Are we sure of that? During the WW2 Japan changed its military doctrine, imposing the absolute prohibition to surrender. Furthermore, it takes 2 bombs to surrender, not one.
Actually, it took three bombs. The two that went off, and the threat of a third (which the U.S. didn't actually have).

The idea that nuclear weapons weren't needed to stop Japan is not historically accurate. Well, sure, Japan would have been forced to through simple attrition, but it would have taken a million allied lives to do it.

Sorry, better them than us. That's war.
 
There is talk, and there is action. And only the USA has actually demonstrated such action.
I believe that historical aspect needs to be assessed in Defcon status.
Unfortunately, the actions of the past do not apply to today's strategic situation. When the US dropped those bombs on Japan, we were the only country with that technology, so we feared no nuclear reprisals.

Now, we have between 9 and 11 countries with nuclear weapons, and the use of one by any of those nations could lead to a runaway nuclear exchange.
 
One of the dirty little secrets of the War in the Pacific is that as soon as Germany surrendered, the Soviet Union turned its attention to Japan. They declared war on Japan on August 8, 1945, which Truman was well aware of in advance, and overwhelmingly invaded Japanese-occupied territories in China. One of the reasons Truman chose to drop the bomb on August 6th was so that America could demonstrate its new powerful weapon - not so much to the Japanese, but to the Soviets, *before* the Soviet invasion occurred.

You can dislike or disagree with me all you want, but this information can be verified through numerous reliable historical sources. The US had a choice on dropping those two bombs, and it had nothing to do with saving the lives of American soldiers. It had everything to do with showing the entire world - especially the Soviet Union - that America not only had these powerful new weapons, but was wiling to use them.

This is an irrefutable historical fact.

This is absolutely true and I known that. And for sure, the use of nukes had at least the purpose to demostrate the new weapon to USSR. But we can't really know if it was the only actual purpose, rather than the usefull corollary of the only way to quickly defeat Japan. We can imagine that if the purpose was only to show the new weapon to USSR, US could have made it in a less destructive way. I can't really thinck that Truman and his leadship prefered to kill hundreds of thousands innocent people, just to demostrate something that could have been demostrated with an higly visible nuclear test, similar to all those have been made in the followin years. Personally, I think that Truman was right, even if I don't know what would I have really done in his place, but for sure the world was tired for the war and Japanese was fanatic fascists, and it was understandable that US didn't wan to sacrify thousands of its young people on the altar of the Japan fascism. But if Japan was really on the verge to surrender, such behaviour was the worst crime against the humanity ever made! Personally, I don't thinck so. if I thought that, I wouldn't hesit to say that. What we know for sure, is that is likely that Japan wasn't on the verge to surrender, US plans expected thousands of deads to win the war in a conventional way, that Jananese military doctrine prohibited to surrender and that Japan tooks not one, but two nuke to surrender (and the threat of a 3°, as DEFCON Warning System says).

Actually, it took three bombs. The two that went off, and the threat of a third (which the U.S. didn't actually have).

The idea that nuclear weapons weren't needed to stop Japan is not historically accurate. Well, sure, Japan would have been forced to through simple attrition, but it would have taken a million allied lives to do it.

Sorry, better them than us. That's war.

I 100% agree.
 
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Actually, it took three bombs. The two that went off, and the threat of a third (which the U.S. didn't actually have).

The idea that nuclear weapons weren't needed to stop Japan is not historically accurate. Well, sure, Japan would have been forced to through simple attrition, but it would have taken a million allied lives to do it.

Sorry, better them than us. That's war.
I am sorry, but this is simply incorrect and is how the old history books used to teach it. Most of us in our 40s or older were raised and educated with this view of how the war against Japan ended, so I understand why people think this is the truth. But it wasn't until recently that declassified documents from both the US and Japan reveal a slightly different story, and it's a whole lot more complex than just not conducting an invasion of the Japanese home islands, which most certainly would have extended the war by at least a year and cost an estimated million lives of American soldiers, to say nothing of Japanese casualties. That much of the story is true, at least.

The increasing political tensions between Truman, Churchill, and Stalin played a huge part in the decision to drop the bomb. There were also political issues going on internally within the Japanese Empire, with a growing faction recognizing that Japan had no chance to win the war and the only way to save the Japanese culture was to surrender. They, of course, clashed with the hardcore Imperialists who kept insisting that they fight to the last man, woman, and child. All of this was taking place prior to August 6th, unbeknownst to the Allies.

The first bomb was dropped on August 6th. The Soviet Union declared war on Japan and invaded Japanese-occupied territories in China with over a million troops on August 8th. Truman was full aware of the August 8th invasion date, which is why he made the decision to drop the first bomb *before* the Soviet Union declared war. The Japanese decision to surrender was actually made after the Soviet invasion into China began, but the arguments on *how* to surrender kept that decision from being made officially known to the US or USSR. So, the second bomb was dropped on August 9th. It took another week before Hirohito finally stepped in between the arguing factions and made the announcement to surrender. The threat of a third bomb had very little to do with that decision; the timing just happens to be coincidental. Japan would have surrendered even with the threat of a third bomb.

Had the United States chosen to simply blockade the Japanese islands and allow the Soviet Union to drive the Japanese from China, they could have just starved them out, achieving the same result of Japanese surrender without the loss of American lives, *and* without the use of nuclear weapons. But Truman had his new toys that would allow him to bring the war to a very quick end (good for him politically at home) and demonstrate to Stalin the fact that America not only had this new powerful weapon, but was willing to use it in combat. This was meant to keep the Soviet Union in check since both Churchill and Truman already recognized the growing threat to Europe from Stalin. That decision obviously didn't work as intended since the Soviet Union then made developing their own nuclear weapons a priority, and once they did, it was too late to go back, and Cold War 1 began.

All of this information is easily verifiable.

Now, with all that being said, it's easy for me and others to play Monday morning quarterback seven decades later. Truman, Churchill, Stalin, and Hirohito did not have the benefit of knowing how the use of those two weapons would start us down the path that has brought us to where we are today. Had they known how history would play out, I have no doubt that those bombs would not have been dropped and the major powers would have worked together instead of against each other to reshape the post-war world.

However, the fact remains that there was more behind the decision to drop the bomb than the simple story we were taught in school. Yes, not having to invade and saving a million lives was a contributing factor, but it was not the only factor. Actual history is never as simple as history books paint it to be, and everyone here knows that.
 
One of the dirty little secrets of the War in the Pacific is that as soon as Germany surrendered, the Soviet Union turned its attention to Japan. They declared war on Japan on August 8, 1945, which Truman was well aware of in advance, and overwhelmingly invaded Japanese-occupied territories in China. One of the reasons Truman chose to drop the bomb on August 6th was so that America could demonstrate its new powerful weapon - not so much to the Japanese, but to the Soviets, *before* the Soviet invasion occurred.

You can dislike or disagree with me all you want, but this information can be verified through numerous reliable historical sources. The US had a choice on dropping those two bombs, and it had nothing to do with saving the lives of American soldiers. It had everything to do with showing the entire world - especially the Soviet Union - that America not only had these powerful new weapons, but was wiling to use them.

This is an irrefutable historical fact.
This is not a secret, yeah it was front page coverage at the time but anyone who follows WW2 history even cursorily knows this.
Your right we could have not used it.
It would have taken months to prep of invasion or establishing a block aid. The fire bombings would have continued throughout Japan. Russia would have been beating on japans north. Demanding to be a part of any negotiated pease treaty. Would that have been a better solution? I don’t see it as one. The US has had a fairly decent relationship with Japan since the war ended. Japan is still in a territorial dispute with Russia 75 years on.
As far as using them or not. They were a new weapon and like all new toys they would have eventually been used. The arms race to build them would have happened either way. There was no putting them back in the bottle. It could be argued that having them used as they were might have prevented a later more uncontrolled use of them because the horror of their destruction was made front page news.
Putting a healthy fear of them in the public and national debate.I’m not saying this some grand scheme of military genius. It was near the end of a horrible war. Already with peace snd partition issues in Europe and a brand new weapon. Sometimes people just do the best they can with the situation their in.
 
Had they known how history would play out, I have no doubt that those bombs would not have been dropped and the major powers would have worked together instead of against each other to reshape the post-war world.
No I believe you are being to generous to them. If this human quality to make the correct decisions if all the facts are known could have been counted on then the Cold War would have never happened.
We could have blockaded Japan and in that period Stalin who had been at war with Japan much longer than the US would have had territorial demands on Japan. As well as and quite possibly even more damaging a direct involvement in the occupation of Japan after the surrendered.
It is not far fetched to assume this because this is exactly what he did in Europe. The deal was struck that gave Stalin the sole power and control over the territory that they “liberated” From Germany.
It was a very difficult time deals with devils were made by both sides.
 
Dont know, guess i'm not in time for that.

I want to look on the other side of the medal and i guess there are many options for this side here.

Nukes are very horrible, the whole world saw it at this point. Might be possible, that without its use there, someone fired a way bigger and more horrible one.

It's easy to say after, that this was a really worse decision and yes, for many people it was at this point. We can only work for a world, where it never (must/will) happen again. We cant change the past, we can just learn for the future.
 
I am sorry, but this is simply incorrect and is how the old history books used to teach it. Most of us in our 40s or older were raised and educated with this view of how the war against Japan ended, so I understand why people think this is the truth. But it wasn't until recently that declassified documents from both the US and Japan reveal a slightly different story, and it's a whole lot more complex than just not conducting an invasion of the Japanese home islands, which most certainly would have extended the war by at least a year and cost an estimated million lives of American soldiers, to say nothing of Japanese casualties. That much of the story is true, at least.

The increasing political tensions between Truman, Churchill, and Stalin played a huge part in the decision to drop the bomb. There were also political issues going on internally within the Japanese Empire, with a growing faction recognizing that Japan had no chance to win the war and the only way to save the Japanese culture was to surrender. They, of course, clashed with the hardcore Imperialists who kept insisting that they fight to the last man, woman, and child. All of this was taking place prior to August 6th, unbeknownst to the Allies.

The first bomb was dropped on August 6th. The Soviet Union declared war on Japan and invaded Japanese-occupied territories in China with over a million troops on August 8th. Truman was full aware of the August 8th invasion date, which is why he made the decision to drop the first bomb *before* the Soviet Union declared war. The Japanese decision to surrender was actually made after the Soviet invasion into China began, but the arguments on *how* to surrender kept that decision from being made officially known to the US or USSR. So, the second bomb was dropped on August 9th. It took another week before Hirohito finally stepped in between the arguing factions and made the announcement to surrender. The threat of a third bomb had very little to do with that decision; the timing just happens to be coincidental. Japan would have surrendered even with the threat of a third bomb.

Had the United States chosen to simply blockade the Japanese islands and allow the Soviet Union to drive the Japanese from China, they could have just starved them out, achieving the same result of Japanese surrender without the loss of American lives, *and* without the use of nuclear weapons. But Truman had his new toys that would allow him to bring the war to a very quick end (good for him politically at home) and demonstrate to Stalin the fact that America not only had this new powerful weapon, but was willing to use it in combat. This was meant to keep the Soviet Union in check since both Churchill and Truman already recognized the growing threat to Europe from Stalin. That decision obviously didn't work as intended since the Soviet Union then made developing their own nuclear weapons a priority, and once they did, it was too late to go back, and Cold War 1 began.

All of this information is easily verifiable.

Now, with all that being said, it's easy for me and others to play Monday morning quarterback seven decades later. Truman, Churchill, Stalin, and Hirohito did not have the benefit of knowing how the use of those two weapons would start us down the path that has brought us to where we are today. Had they known how history would play out, I have no doubt that those bombs would not have been dropped and the major powers would have worked together instead of against each other to reshape the post-war world.

However, the fact remains that there was more behind the decision to drop the bomb than the simple story we were taught in school. Yes, not having to invade and saving a million lives was a contributing factor, but it was not the only factor. Actual history is never as simple as history books paint it to be, and everyone here knows that.
Japan would not have surrendered due to starvation. ( I have to correct you on that ) Would it have been more evil to starve them to the same casualties rates or more in your opinion?
 
This is not a secret, yeah it was front page coverage at the time but anyone who follows WW2 history even cursorily knows this.
Your right we could have not used it.
It would have taken months to prep of invasion or establishing a block aid. The fire bombings would have continued throughout Japan. Russia would have been beating on japans north. Demanding to be a part of any negotiated pease treaty. Would that have been a better solution? I don’t see it as one. The US has had a fairly decent relationship with Japan since the war ended. Japan is still in a territorial dispute with Russia 75 years on.
As far as using them or not. They were a new weapon and like all new toys they would have eventually been used. The arms race to build them would have happened either way. There was no putting them back in the bottle. It could be argued that having them used as they were might have prevented a later more uncontrolled use of them because the horror of their destruction was made front page news.
Putting a healthy fear of them in the public and national debate.I’m not saying this some grand scheme of military genius. It was near the end of a horrible war. Already with peace snd partition issues in Europe and a brand new weapon. Sometimes people just do the best they can with the situation their in.
Your last sentence really sticks.
And is just as relevant for any country at any time. 😉👍
 
Japan would not have surrendered due to starvation. ( I have to correct you on that ) Would it have been more evil to starve them to the same casualties rates or more in your opinion?
That's fine; it's a debatable point, I grant you. In my opinion, no, it would have not been more evil. For them to starve as a race would have been their choice. Or, the starving multitudes could have revolted and overthrown the emperor. Or they could have surrendered to the Soviet Union instead of the United States. But they would have had choices to make that they were not given with the sudden unannounced nuclear destruction of cities and civilians. Not sure I'm phrasing it the best possible way. Hopefully, you'll understand what I mean.
 
That's fine; it's a debatable point, I grant you. In my opinion, no, it would have not been more evil. For them to starve as a race would have been their choice. Or, the starving multitudes could have revolted and overthrown the emperor. Or they could have surrendered to the Soviet Union instead of the United States. But they would have had choices to make that they were not given with the sudden unannounced nuclear destruction of cities and civilians. Not sure I'm phrasing it the best possible way. Hopefully, you'll understand what I mean.
I would argue its more "evil" to have people suffer over time if you are the direct cause. ( the question is would you want 2-300k dead from nuclear blasts and after effects or millions dead from starvations ) I cant see how the Soviet Union should have invaded the Japanese Mainland without US help. ( Ofc there would not have been a south Korea then and another war to discuss ) The reason for the sudden unannounced attack had to do with the safety of the crew, and what had happened if they warned, and it didnt work.
 
Well, my point and history told of V.S and the two nukes on Japan,

Story was to save America's soldiers lives after the battle of Okinowa and so on and drop the bombs on Japan but sure it was a story for world to Justify to drop two nukes for the big crowd.
But we know better that Russia was in Germany after defeating Germany and also the America where and meet up in 1945 south of Berlin and there the two super powers get in struggle over who holds territory when Germany was divided in two.
Russia had no plans to pull back and hold the gained territory what later became as U.S.S.R and the Sovjet pack whit Germany divided in west and east that later get's the name DDR till 1990 when the wall came down in Berlin they were united as one Germany again and Russia colapse and pull back out of Germany and Poland and other country's that where in the Sovjet Pack.

Why was America in the history books the great liberator in Europe ?
False also that was done to achieve full power over the western country's that later became NATO in 1949 and agree was that it came in history books as the the great liberator while France,English,Canadanians, did the dirty work like the English who fought against SS-panzer divisions at Cean while American's drive to the coast of cherbourg.
So far American's know that Russia was advancing from the east, we all know Germany had rocket tech and lot of other developing tech that Amerika wanted before it fell in the hand of Russia !
That's why Amerika was in a hurry after The battle at Arnhem called Operation Market garden to get as fast as possible in to Germany to get there hands on that tech before the Russians do !
Where did NASA get there tech from like to go to the moon ? Werner von Braun who invented the V1 and V2 rockets wonder what has happen when Werner von Braun felt in the hands of Russia whit V1 and V2 tech and lot of other tech.
So The Dutch for example where not liberated by American's but by Canadian's and the English but the story in Dutch history books say it was the American's who liberated us !
There are to much lies about WOII in Europe what the American's did and do not , you can name it propaganda to achieve NATO in 1949 as Amerika the great liberator of Europe.

Now back to the two nukes, Germany divided in two by Russian and Amerika.
When in 1945 Germany has surrender and the war goes on whit Japan Russia also want to Attack Japan to gain more territory in Asia while they already gain lot of Territory in Europe.
The Fear was that Russia not only want Territory in Asia to get more power over Amerika but also that if that happens Russia may also attack west Europe to take all Europe and go to war whit Amerika.
Whit no nukes Amerika will sure lost the war in Europe against Russia if Russia has invaded west Europe too so the plan was to let Russia see who the big boss.
They use the Nukes in 1946 on Japan to let Russia see the new Super weapon and stay out and don't attack us in Europe or we destroy you city's and army's whit this super weapon.

Was it Justify to drop two nukes on Japan ?
In my opinion yes because it has spare lot of lives for a possible greater war in Europe whit Russia and Amerika and also for the American soldiers they don't have to invade mainland Japan that will have cost another 100.000-250.000 US or many more soldiers lives because Japan was prepared for a invasion and would be a fight to the dead from who was defending Japan (they where in combat even more dirty and fanatic then the German SS was !).
The Second bomb was not really needed but Amerika has to show Russia that it had more then one Bomb and willing to use it !
Yes it was terrible and horror for the Japanese people in those city's where the nukes are drop on, but in that time it was war and war make people dead on both sides.
Also to use the bombs Amerika can study the effect's of the new super weapon we have seen that on TV what Amerika has done in Japan short after the war and exam people and the destruction.
Maybe it's good that Amerika has used the nukes on Japan to warn Russia in Europe and Asia to not start a war against Amerika or you will be sorry if you done it.
 
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Operation Market garden to get as fast as possible in to Germany to get there hands on that tech before the Russians do !
Market Garden was British General Montgomery's plan.
Sounds like the US should have just ignored Europe and focused all our attention on Japan. Being that we weren't really needed there it seems
 
The fire bombing of Tokyo consisted over over 300 B-29’s which dropped 1629 tones of napalm on Tokyo on March 9th 45.
For 4 1/2 months Japan did not budge on surrender with continued daily bombing of major Japanese cities. In august it was decided to use the new weapon. For 2 1/2 days Japan refused calls for surrender.
I don't always agree with John Mearsheimer (hell; the guy predicted that Russia would ally with the West against China), but he's right in pointing out that - appearances aside - strategic bombing has never decided the outcome of any war. To wit:
- German strategic bombing of the UK obviously failed in both world wars,
- Allied strategic bombing of Germany only began in earnest in mid-1944, i.e. when the outcome of the war was already a foregone conclusion (and even so, the Germans did not surrender until the Red Army took Berlin),
- Likewise, US strategic bombing of Japan did not really kick off until the US secured land bases in striking distance of the Japanese homeland. USAF began carpet bombing Japanese cities in March 1945, by which time it had become clear that Japan was headed for a disastrous defeat - still, it did not surrender until the nukes came out and USSR declared war (and even then the cabinet was evenly split and the buck was passed all the way up to Hirohito). Again, it would be hard to argue that airpower was the deciding factor here.

In later years the US would employ strategic bombing in Vietnam, and the Soviets in Afghanistan. With similarly lackluster results.

In short - strategic bombing makes for some spectacular newsreels, but to force a surrender from your enemy you really need boots on the ground (or a very credible threat of such)...
 
There are never any "good guys" in war. By its very nature, war is aggressive and merciless.

As the modern Homo Sapien species evolved, war has been with us every step of the way. The vast majority of human history is defined by war. Our species can never truly achieve peace because Nature didn't care about what we wanted out of the world. We stand atop a pile of corpses spanning more than four and a half billion years.

To this day wars continue to be fought for a multitude of excuses. Weapons become more destructive, but the goals remain the same. In my view, nuclear weapons are a natural escalation. And we are bound to discover something even more destructive eventually. And, much like any weapon, the nuclear bomb was eventually used in war. While they may not have been as pivotal as we have been led to believe, they certainly played a role in forcing Japan to back down. To this day those two bombs are still killing people through increased cancer rates and birth defects.

We have improved on this power with the Thermonuclear bomb, and once again we stand on the edge of oblivion with these weapons threatening to push us over the edge. The only reason there hasn't been another world war yet is that, for the first time in history, our survival instinct outweighs war.

Should the US have dropped those bombs? I say yes. When words failed, They spoke to Japan in a language they were able to understand.
 
Systematicly bombing of civilians is a war crime and an unfair move against an inferior enemy.
This demonstration of power at the end of the war was a macho display of Stone Age quality.
And let's be clear about this: The USA prepared and prolonged this war, WWII could have ended in 1941.
But by supporting the Soviet Union and China the U.S. has build up it's own mortal enemy, with which they have since engaged in many proxy wars.
 
Systematicly bombing of civilians is a war crime and an unfair move against an inferior enemy.
This demonstration of power at the end of the war was a macho display of Stone Age quality.
And let's be clear about this: The USA prepared and prolonged this war, WWII could have ended in 1941.
But by supporting the Soviet Union and China the U.S. has build up it's own mortal enemy, with which they have since engaged in many proxy wars.
Please post your supporting evidence for the bold sentences.
 
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