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UA-RU-NATO | DISCUSSIONS

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DEFCON Warning System said:
In two spots? Quite a coincidence. It could happen. I was merely responding to your accusation that anyone who thought it wasn't sabotage was somehow deficient.
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It seems it was actually three spots. One on each of the rwo Nord Stream 1 lines and one on the Nord Stream 2.

Both Denmark & Sweden have described the leaks as bneing caused deliberately but Denmark declined to call them an attack upon the nation as they occurred in international waters.
The Russians have been training for years in Nordic waters and have a well known submarine capability targetting undersea cables and, presumably, pipelines.
 
DEFCON Warning System said:
I'm a Luddite. What is Tor?
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Tor is basically a "secure" way to post and host websites, information, and articles that can be easily shut down by public media. A lot of whistle-blowers will choose to use it because it takes WikiLeaks a while to modify and redact information. If you wish to get a document out quick and non-redacted it's posted on a website that can only be accessed by Tor (and other darkweb-based search engines). Typically if you're looking for the stuff that makes the news before it makes the news, you're going to Tor (or applicable browsers).

What's currently ongoing is a person willing to drop outright documents on the operation that happened and the US involvement within it.
 
ZedBoy said:
Tor is basically a "secure" way to post and host websites, information, and articles that can be easily shut down by public media. A lot of whistle-blowers will choose to use it because it takes WikiLeaks a while to modify and redact information. If you wish to get a document out quick and non-redacted it's posted on a website that can only be accessed by Tor (and other darkweb-based search engines). Typically if you're looking for the stuff that makes the news before it makes the news, you're going to Tor (or applicable browsers).

What's currently ongoing is a person willing to drop outright documents on the operation that happened and the US involvement within it.
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Vult 7 hit tor first, Clinton Emails hit Tor first (using tor as a really really simplified example to access the dark web), but the pandora papers also hit Tor first. Same for US embassy spying purchases.
 
Norway’s defense minister calling for an emergency NATO defense ministerial meeting tomorrow because of the deliberate attacks on two of Norway’s energy pipelines. This is very serious and developing.

Reports out there, from dubious scource.
 
ZedBoy said:
Plus, why would Russia blow a pipeline they are making money off of?
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Because it allows them to directly attack 'the west' without directly attacking the west.
We know they did it, they know we know, but it stops short o fmilitary engagement and western governments would find it very difficult to justify using direct military action to retliate.
We can suplly Ukraine with equipment and pretend that we are not at war with Russi and they can didrup energy supplies and pretend that they are not at war with the west.
 
Gaijin said:
Because it allows them to directly attack 'the west' without directly attacking the west.
We know they did it, they know we know, but it stops short o fmilitary engagement and western governments would find it very difficult to justify using direct military action to retliate.
We can suplly Ukraine with equipment and pretend that we are not at war with Russi and they can didrup energy supplies and pretend that they are not at war with the west.
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"Nord Stream 1, which consists of two parallel lines with nameplate capacity of 27.5 billion cubic metres per year each, started supplying gas directly from Russia to Germany in 2011."

"Nord Stream 2 is an underwater twin pipeline that would transport natural gas from Russia directly to Germany."

It creates money and energy dependency.

"In 2021, Russia supplied nearly 40 per cent of the EU's natural gas needs through this pipeline." https://www.business-standard.com/a...is-it-critical-for-europe-122083100563_1.html
Plus politicians within the united states are afraid the pipeline's energy dependency will create a "strongarm" effect to where Russia can enforce policy into the EU, else risk cutting power.
 
Gaijin said:
Because it allows them to directly attack 'the west' without directly attacking the west.
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But the pipelines weren't delivering anything.

This is attacking the West in the same way shelling the Antarctic is shelling the West. Affects no one.

Besides, this actually hurts Russia. The Ukraine war won't last forever. How is Russia going to deliver energy now with no pipeline?
 
The working pressure of that pipeline would range from 400-750 PSI, the deepest part of the Baltic is 459m (1505ft). Oceanic pressures at this depth would be 14.6 per 10m, therefore the maximum pressure on the pipeline would be 670PSI. The pipeline itself is constructed of concrete weighted steel pipe, working pressure exceeding 5000PSI.
 
DEFCON Warning System said:
Yeah, but it was made by the Russians. The same people who made Chernobyl. Chernobyl almost worked! (Line from Deep Impact.)
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My point being the delta in the pressure difference would not cause implosion or explosion, therefore there needs to be on outside trauma to the pipeline. This would factor out pipeline failure unless the pipeline was at 87% or higher capacity.
 
DEFCON Warning System said:
But the pipelines weren't delivering anything.

This is attacking the West in the same way shelling the Antarctic is shelling the West. Affects no one.

Besides, this actually hurts Russia. The Ukraine war won't last forever. How is Russia going to deliver energy now with no pipeline?
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You know,... I'm happy to admit I'm wrong. It is extremely suspicious yes. But I just can't think of a logical or realistic reason as to why either side would do this.

Though given tensions as of late this is concern I have to admit. Both sides could use this for extreme escalations.
 
DarkNoon said:
You know,... I'm happy to admit I'm wrong. It is extremely suspicious yes. But I just can't think of a logical or realistic reason as to why either side would do this.
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I can't either. This whole thing has me flummoxed.
 
DEFCON Warning System said:
I can't either. This whole thing has me flummoxed.
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www.forbes.com

Nord Stream 2 Proves To Be Geo-Political Disaster

Russia’s recent military moves have put Germany in a fix over its Nord Stream 2 natural gas pipeline project and its increasing energy dependence on Russia.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
There are few nuggets contained in this report I posted earlier, it’s a couple of years old but some good info. Surrounding Germany. Some rumblings I’ve been picking up also seems to indicate that this incident is about Germany.
 
DarkNoon said:
You know,... I'm happy to admit I'm wrong. It is extremely suspicious yes. But I just can't think of a logical or realistic reason as to why either side would do this.

Though given tensions as of late this is concern I have to admit. Both sides could use this for extreme escalations.
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I honestly don't care who blew it up: Europe is going to be in trouble and the west/east are going to battle for it again.
 
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