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UA-RU-NATO | DISCUSSIONS

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william said:
"You can't really tell what's destroyed, also no sizzling, you would think patriot missiles would cook a bit. Also no grey smoke, and patriot missiles are solid fuel"
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I thought they said the Patriot had fired all their missiles, so there was nothing left to hit but the launcher.
 
When I’m the history in the history of surface to air warfare was any surface defense system 100%.
Shoot enough missiles at a battery and it’s going to be overwhelmed. There should be no surprise in this. Especially when you launch as many or more missiles at site as the systems battery has to launch.
It’s attrition.
Can russia afford multiple kinzhals, kalabers and drones for one patriot battery. Or can the west not afford the cost.
Twenty missiles expended that won’t be striking a power station or depot or apartment building.
Used to be this was good math in wartime calculations.
 
alphaecho said:
If the Patriots aren't 100% effective, (I'm pretty sure no weapons system is). one of the variables that must be considered is the potential damage if Ukraine did not have the Patriots, not only quantify the cost of the Patriot system against the cost of Russian attack systems (missiles, rockets and drones), but the economic cost and lives from the impact of Russian systems in Ukraine, at least now they have the means to defend themselves and that also helps the morale of the population
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Having the Patriot battery become a Kinzhal sink is quasi useful in its own right. The Russians seem to be trying to score PR points here, and this looks like something that can be exploited by UA. The integrated radar system can be detected (since it is, by definition, an active signal source), but decoys exist. This means more missiles need to be used, and yes, Patriot AD is expensive hardware, but so are the Kinzhals.

Good point in that this is ultimately a contest of economies. The West has a massive advantage here - assuming it has the political will to go along with its economic potential (which is, unfortunately, a big question mark).

Btw., wouldn't rule out THAADs being supplied at some point in the future.
 
Araxen said:
I was watching this video last night, and he explains why it's hard to totally destroy the system.

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A nuclear-armed Kinzhal could probably totally destroy a Patriot battery (along with much of the surrounding cityscape), but I do not see the Russians nuking Kyiv under any circumstances. It is "the mother of Russian cities" after all...
 

Why Putin Will Use Nuclear Weapons in Ukraine​

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Why Putin Will Use Nuclear Weapons in Ukraine | Russia Matters

www.russiamatters.org www.russiamatters.org

Interesting article .......long......not really anything new,
but it does a good job of laying out what could possibly be
Putin’s “thought process” concerning the use of nukes.
I found the summation both thought provoking and alarming:

Normalizing Nuclear Weapons​

As soon as Russia uses a nuclear weapon in Ukraine, the “fallout” will begin and spread. Tens of thousands of Ukrainians will be dead, suffering or dealing with the effects of the nuclear explosion. Hundreds of millions of Europeans will be bracing for war. But 7 billion others around the globe will go about their business, alarmed to be sure, but physically unaffected by a nuclear explosion in Ukraine. This last outcome of a Russian tactical nuclear strike may ultimately be the most dangerous to the international order. The image that many people have of nuclear arms as civilization-ending weapons will be erased. In its place, people will see these weapons as normal and, although tragic, acceptable in war. Just a “bigger bullet.” It is in this dramatically changed context that the United States will have to decide how to respond.
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Russia arrests hypersonic missile engineers​


english.nv.ua

Russia arrests hypersonic missile engineers

At least three scientists from the Siberian division of the Russian Academy of Sciences (RAS) have been arrested in Russia over the past year, two of whom having reportedly worked on Moscow’s hypersonic missile program for over ten years.
english.nv.ua english.nv.ua

Interestedly they were just getting to the Patriot Electronic counter counter measure portions of the missiles when they were arrested….(thats a joke)
 
Torcher said:

Russia arrests hypersonic missile engineers​


english.nv.ua

Russia arrests hypersonic missile engineers

At least three scientists from the Siberian division of the Russian Academy of Sciences (RAS) have been arrested in Russia over the past year, two of whom having reportedly worked on Moscow’s hypersonic missile program for over ten years.
english.nv.ua english.nv.ua

Interestedly they were just getting to the Patriot Electronic counter counter measure portions of the missiles when they were arrested….(thats a joke)
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And then there’s this:
www.newsbreak.com

Russian State TV Issues Stark Warning Over Threat of Defeat - NewsBreak

"If we lose, we're taking the whole world with us," Vladimir Solovyov said on the Russia 1 channel.
www.newsbreak.com www.newsbreak.com
 
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