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UA-RU-NATO | DISCUSSIONS

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Seriously said:
I always find it intriguing that you seem so willing to let Russia completely off the hook for invading and destroying so much in Ukraine.
And with a slight of hand lay the death and destruction in Ukraine somehow at the feet of Ukraine.

Like somehow with out thought or concern surrendering is such a normal and logical choice to make.
Why should Russia not be the one surrendering.
Simply because their willing to keep sending people to die and level cities and kill Ukrainians.

Is it actually a deeply held belief that all war is bad and that no nation should ever defend itself.
Was it wrong for the European nations and Russia to resist Germany in WW2? Or should they just have submitted and saved themselves the war deaths.

There are things worse that war sometimes. Historically Ukrainians and many other Eastern European countries know this to be true.
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Cutting a peace deal is different to surrendering. Actually pretty much most of your reply doesn't challenge what I said . Should never defend itself. Lost me?
Perceptions tricky things.
 
Yingyang said:
Cutting a peace deal is different to surrendering. Actually pretty much most of your reply doesn't challenge what I said . Should never defend itself. Lost me?
Perceptions tricky things.
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Ok I was misunderstanding what you intention is.
I can support negotiations, I’ve said that’s.
But what can you do if your oppositions is unwilling to engage in actual negotiations including compromising themselves.

Zelinski responded positively with Chaims attempt as mediation. Yeah their saying everything.
But he did not slam the door.
Russia as best I can tell still wants eastern Ukraine and Crimea still annexed to Russia.
They also want Ukraine demilitarized and Russia being the sole guarantor of Ukraines security.
Controlled by Russia.

That is not something Ukraine will give into. This was what the revolt in 2014 was all about. They did not want Russian installed or approved leaders.
They wanted to choose. They evidently still want to they’ve had two elections. And buy all indications thr still support their last elected president.

We can say Russia is not going to budge on Crimea. Realistically that’s likely true.
But Ukraine is likely not going to accept Russia being their sole security guarantor. And Russia is not going to compromise on that.

So we’re stuck, at least for now
 
alphaecho said:
Each side tells its truth
Two enemy fakes today -1) the taking of Bakhmut by Wagner, and 2) the disappearance of Commander-in-Chief Valeriy Zaluzhnyi. These are both false disinformation ops meant to demoralize. Do not believe them.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1660084338254282753
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Having said that, Zaluzhnyi hasn't appeared in public since May 9, and was not present (even via video link) at the recent meeting of NATO chiefs of staff (as per Adm. Rob Bauer, head of the NATO Military Committee). Russian-sourced rumors regarding his health are oddly specific, and I'm willing to entertain the idea that something's up.
 
Irag8er said:
www.reuters.com

Biden: Zelenskiy promised Ukraine won't use F-16's in Russia

U.S. President Joe Biden on Sunday said he had received a "flat assurance" from Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy that he would not use Western-provided F-16 fighter jets to go into Russian territory.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
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There's a non-discountable grey zone involved here. It stands to reason UA would not want to fly into Russian airspace, but the F-16 is an air superiority fighter, which means its primary role is to fire missiles that might hit targets in Russian airspace (much like the recent series of "incidents" in the Kursk oblast). AMRAAMs have a range of up to 160 km.

Generally speaking, in the age of drone swarms and standoff missile attacks, fighters are becoming something of a sideshow and are probably on their way to obsolescence.
 
Socom7 said:
There's a non-discountable grey zone involved here. It stands to reason UA would not want to fly into Russian airspace, but the F-16 is an air superiority fighter, which means its primary role is to fire missiles that might hit targets in Russian airspace (much like the recent series of "incidents" in the Kursk oblast). AMRAAMs have a range of up to 160 km.

Generally speaking, in the age of drone swarms and standoff missile attacks, fighters are becoming something of a sideshow and are probably on their way to obsolescence.
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I’d also assume the US wouldn’t want that type of military hardware to fall to an air defense system in Russia either. Don’t want them getting their hands on anything. I’d hope our military would be smart enough to not keep anything classified on board but then again… 🫠
 
On the downing of a SU-35, what's been debunked? That one was shot down full stop or the possibility of Allied forces being involved?

Need to remove at least two news sources from my personal trustworthy list if the former...
 
Spyglass said:
FALSE - Rumors an allied power (possibly UK) shot down an SU-35. We have 3 E-4’s airborne and Russians have at least 3 command and control planes up.
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uamcplyr said:
On the downing of a SU-35, what's been debunked? That one was shot down full stop or the possibility of Allied forces being involved?

Need to remove at least two news sources from my personal trustworthy list if the former...
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I'm trying to make sense of it. Have updated news on this in REPORT thread. Still very unclear.

Though it is false it was the allied forces as original source deleted content claiming it was the UK.

Still trying to figure out if a Russian fighter was even shot down or if that is false too. That is what is unclear. Though Ukrainian sources have come out and said it was Ukraine who shot down the Russian jet. Still not verified though.
 
Totality said:
I'm trying to make sense of it. Have updated news on this in REPORT thread. Still very unclear.

Though it is false it was the allied forces as original source deleted content claiming it was the UK.

Still trying to figure out if a Russian fighter was even shot down or if that is false too. That is what is unclear. Though Ukrainian sources have come out and said it was Ukraine who shot down the Russian jet. Still not verified though.
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You're doing a good job! Could've sworn I hit refresh on the other thread but apparently I failed.

Am in a couple of Discord's that are usually pretty hot on events like this and not seeing the kind of talk I'd expect... Mind you, intelligence is murky so maybe more details will come out in the coming hours.
 
uamcplyr said:
You're doing a good job!
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Thank you. But to reassure everyone I don't think this is something to really be concerned about. Even if it does turn out a Russian fighter was shot down by Ukraine. It has happened a lot throughout the war and is nothing new or any kind of escalation in the grand scheme of things.
 
Spyglass said:
Rumors an allied power (possibly UK) shot down an SU-35.
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uamcplyr said:
not seeing the kind of talk I'd expect...
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Seems like the whole things was fake:
Totality said:

Ukrainian forces down Russian Su-35 fighter jet, but then removed announcement on social media​

news.yahoo.com

Ukrainian forces down Russian Su-35 fighter jet, but then removed announcement on social media

On the evening of 21 May, Ukraine's air defence forces shot down a Russian Su-35 fighter jet. Subsequently, Pletenchuk removed the message about the downing of the Russian Su-35 fighter by air defence...
news.yahoo.com news.yahoo.com

So busted imo. None of it was real as I suspected. At least that's what it looks like.
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Yingyang said:
But the west make a big deal out of it
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No one has. In fact its been mentioned a few times that no one is really talking about it anywhere. Hardly any news about it on social media too. I've been thinking this whole thing has been fake from the begging not putting any merit into it publicly.

But you can keep that attitude with clear non productive sarcasm to make a point no one cares about while where trying to figure things out.
 
Leaning towards it being fake/propaganda myself as well.

Have seen speculation that "the UK" directed related tweets on this be be taken down. This, too, makes me even more suspicious and think that little more will come of this one (y)
 
Moving on...

uamcplyr said:
Leaning towards it being fake/propaganda myself as well.
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Yea 100%.

uamcplyr said:
Have seen speculation that "the UK" directed related tweets on this be be taken down. This, too, makes me even more suspicious and think that little more will come of this one (y)
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Yup. Seems all is well. But will keep a eye on it. Trying to stay focused, kinda in the middle of something when all this occurred.
 
DEFCON Warning System said:
Though doesn't it have some strategic value?
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I suppose. It is 30,000,000 million a pop for them to make.

With every single major semiconductor bussines following sanctions on Russia from stopping their sales of top high end chip.... can't imagine russia can produce any or at least in numbers that would matter.

What little semiconductor they do get from scrapping electronics or appliances goes into making missiles or other equipment they need.
 
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