Trump announces monumental new plan to eliminate ALL TAXES ON OVERTIME pay.

[william]

That'll be a nice bump in paychecks if he can get that done.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1834359431808590288

 

[teekay99]

It's an interesting idea but not one I support. I don't support eliminating taxes on tips either. The government keeps expanding its spending and liabilities while regularly restricting its tax sources (or finding new ones nobody likes, such as ideas floating around to tax health benefits that an employer provides). This is a recipe for financial disaster and government default. As we decrease the tax burdens on people at the lower ends of the income spectrum and the middle class, the tax burden shifts remarkably to the wealthier, along with the government experiencing increased deficits and an ever increasing debt. This sounds great if you believe in the politics of class warfare. But it has unintended consequences:

1. Higher income/net wealth individuals will engage in further legal tax avoidance strategies to reduce their tax burden.
2. Higher income/net wealth individuals will reduce capital investments in the US.
3. Higher income/net wealth individuals will move their investments, their businesses (i.e. jobs), and perhaps even themselves to lower tax locations outside of the US.
4. People who save for retirement (like they are supposed to) naturally become higher-wealth individuals. Increasing the tax burden on high-wealth individuals will hurt senior citizens who have saved for retirement.
   • Oh by the way, with Social Security at risk of becoming insolvent (or providing reduced benefits), seniors get a double-whammy.
5. As debt increases, interest payments on the debt also increases. Increasing debt interest payments reduces the funds available for other government services.

Nobody wants to hear this, but it is time to stop constricting income sources for tactical election and polling gains, and instead, time to start reducing government spending and deficits. As much as I prefer cuts to social programs over cuts to military programs, the real fact is, if we do not get this under control, spending for both will be cut to avoid eventual government default. IMO, out-of-control spending and government deficits are both a financial security and a national security issue.

 

[NuclearID]

instead, time to start reducing government spending and deficits

Ontop of having the mega cooperation and the ultra wealthy pay their fair share again.

Or how about nationalizing the oil industry & using the profits to pay down the debt and once paid off make it into a sovereign wealth fund as he has suggested himself before quite surprisingly.

 

[teekay99]

Ontop of having the mega cooperation and the ultra wealthy pay their fair share again.

I disagree. I do not believe in the politics of class warfare. There is no consensus on what "fair share" means, and is only useful in a political sound bite. I could get behind ending certain corporate welfare or tax breaks, but I would not support a general increase in corporate tax rates nor would I support a wealth tax in any way shape or form. The government must stop disincentivizing the act of becoming wealthy or discouraging people from exercising sound financial discipline. Wealth taxes punish people for doing the right thing financially. Furthermore, wealthy individuals provide more good for society then just paying taxes. They create jobs. They provide investment capital. They donate to causes. They engage in consumer consumption. In reality, the government should encourage all to seek wealth. Students should be provided education and tools for sound financial discipline in elementary and high school. (Why is this not taught in home economics classes?)

Or how about nationalizing the oil industry & using the profits to pay down the debt and once paid off make it into a sovereign wealth fund as he has suggested himself before quite surprisingly.

I do not support nationalizing any industry. The sure way to make something unprofitable is to let the government ruin (oops I mean run) it. The oil industry generally uses profit maximization as its chief approach to making decisions. The government does not. Any industry nationalized by the government will become politicized. Decisions will be based on more abstract social welfare concepts, influenced by the political whim of a Congress and a President seeking to make gains in polls and elections. Investment in oil and gas infrastructure will suffer, and the "industry" will fall apart. Look no further than Venezuela or Mexico to see what happens with a nationalized oil industry.

 

[NuclearID]

There is no consensus on what "fair share"

Then they should pay what the middle and lower class pay at least bare minimum. Because the ultra wealthy don't even pay anywhere near the percentile the middle and lower class do.

Hell before the 70's most companies where taxed over 50%. Businesses still grew and still made money. Their CEOs still were rich.

 

[NuclearID]

All these corporations want bigger Bridges, bigger Transportation networks, bigger utility networks, but they're not paying a dime for it hardly nor want too to help pay for the very public infrastructure they depend on to run their multi-billion dollar corporations. Instead It's falling on the backs of normal taxpayers which I'm sure many can relate to when their property taxes go up every time they redo the damn roads/highways and that's not right and you know it.

The amount of wealth some companies and private individuals have is just gut rottening sickening and it is not right.

It should be going into public infrastructure like ports & roads and other things that these companies are using to to make money that they're piggybacking off of the working class taxpayer to pay for.

 

[NuclearID]

I do not support nationalizing any industry. The sure way to make something unprofitable is to let the government ruin (oops I mean run) it. The oil industry generally uses profit maximization as its chief approach to making decisions. The government does not. Any industry nationalized by the government will become politicized. Decisions will be based on more abstract social welfare concepts, influenced by the political whim of a Congress and a President seeking to make gains in polls and elections. Investment in oil and gas infrastructure will suffer, and the "industry" will fall apart. Look no further than Venezuela or Mexico to see what happens with a nationalized oil industry.

Maybe someone should tell Trump that for proposing it. Surly you saw that one coming.

 

[NuclearID]

It should be going into public infrastructure like ports & roads and other things that these companies are using to to make money that they're piggybacking off of the working class taxpayer to pay for.

Nowhere have I suggested taking money from the rich and giving it to the poor like Robin hood through social policies.

No! They need to pay for the PUBLIC services and the infrastructure that they use to make billions of dollars. Instead of having the working taxpayer pay for it!

 

[NuclearID]

How disgustingly awfully lousy it is to have struggling working class citizens pay for the public services and infrastructure for these businesses to make billions of dollars they hardly pay a dime on in taxes.

 

[teekay99]

Maybe someone should tell Trump that for proposing it. Surly you saw that one coming.

There are many Trump positions and statements I disagree with. If he floated nationalization of any industry, I believe he was wrong and I do not agree with him.

As I think about it, eliminating taxes on tip income will actually drive more firms to implement tipping or replacing wages with tip income to capitalize on tax avoidance schemes or to satisfy worker demands. Consumers will be asked to tip on goods and services they traditionally have not had to tip on. And since I doubt there will be corresponding decreases in prices for goods and services offered by firms, implementation of tipping where they did not exist before might actually become an effective price increase on those goods and services.

As far as eliminating taxes on overtime pay, which taxes will be eliminated? The income tax on overtime pay, the payroll taxes on overtime pay, or both?

Nowhere have I suggested taking money from the rich and giving it to the poor like Robin hood through social policies.

No! They need to pay for the PUBLIC services and the infrastructure that they use to make billions of dollars. Instead of having the working taxpayer pay for it!

I never suggested that you did. Ultimately, tax revenue collected by the federal government finds its way into the general fund to be spent by the government any way it sees fit. There's no efficient way to discern the difference between a tax dollar from a wealthy person and a tax dollar from a working person and route it to specific spending initiatives.

How disgustingly awfully lousy it is to have struggling working class citizens pay for the public services and infrastructure for these businesses to make billions of dollars they hardly pay a dime on in taxes.

I am not sure that is the full picture. Businesses are not burdens or drains on society that take money and opportunity from working people. In fact, it is quite the opposite. Businesses employee many people. Businesses pay payroll taxes, FICA, and Medicare taxes. Businesses provide goods and services to consumers that the government simply does not (or can't). Businesses innovate and find new, cheaper, better ways of doing things. Businesses provide investment opportunities for others to grow their own wealth.

 

[NuclearID]

I am not sure that is the full picture. Businesses are not burdens or drains on society that take money and opportunity from working people. In fact, it is quite the opposite. Businesses employee many people. Businesses pay payroll taxes, FICA, and Medicare taxes. Businesses provide goods and services to consumers that the government simply does not (or can't). Businesses innovate and find new, cheaper, better ways of doing things.

Very lame excuses. They can still do all those things you listed still while paying a higher percentile in taxes to pay for the very public services and infrastructure they use to make billions of dollars. Instead of the working taxpayer.

 

[NuclearID]

There's no efficient way to discern the difference between a tax dollar from a wealthy person and a tax dollar from a working person and route it to specific spending initiatives.

No but you can make sure the pool of funds is being predominantly filled more by the wealthy corporations and individuals then working class citizens.

Then use those funds to run and improve the very public services and infrastructure they use to make billions.

 

[NuclearID]

No but you can make sure the pool of funds is being predominantly filled more by the wealthy corporations and individuals then working class citizens.

Then use those funds to run and improve the very public services and infrastructure they use to make billions.

Really not that hard to comprehendor or see clearly the system you want and that has been in place for sometime miserably failed every working class citizen which both parties have been guilty of continuing the reckless taxation status quo on cooperation and wealthy individuals while working class citizens pick up the slack/bill.

 

[teekay99]

Really not that hard to comprehendor or see clearly the system you want and that has been in place for sometime miserably failed every working class citizen which

I disagree. I believe our system is a remarkable success. It's not perfect and has flaws, but it is certainly not a miserable failure. America's working class citizens are among the richest working class citizens in the world. They have multiple TVs in their homes. They have innovative advanced computers in their pockets (cell phones). They have access to the internet. They have access to free grade school education. Some have cars. They have running water and electricity. They have a stable political environment.

 

[NuclearID]

Businesses innovate and find new, cheaper, better ways of doing things.

What time are you living in? Major corporations only initiatives is to only make more money each quarter for their shareholders, could care less about making the price cheaper, but will certainly make the products cheaper but continue raising the prices baslessly.

Remember the egg shortage? Investigations found out there was no shortage just a clever plan by the few Mega Farm corporations that own all of the food we eat in America got together and collaborated to fabricate the shortage. This is the tip of the ice berg with corporate price gouging.

The capitalism you speak of @teekay99 died a long time ago. We have been in "Late Stage Capitalism" for sometime but only progressively got worse staring and after covid.

BUT FORGET ALL THAT. What I find most disgusting & vile of all they don't pay anywhere near enough in taxes for the services and infrastructure they use to make billions of dollars..

 

[NuclearID]

I disagree. I believe our system is a remarkable success. It's not perfect and has flaws, but it is certainly not a miserable failure. America's working class citizens are among the richest working class citizens in the world. They have multiple TVs in their homes. They have innovative advanced computers in their pockets (cell phones). They have access to the internet. They have access to free grade school education. Some have cars. They have running water and electricity. They have a stable political environment.

That's really how you're going to grade everyone's life and how we're doing, by the material objects that we have? Also school is not free. Last time I checked parents always dread when school comes around cuz they can never afford the supplies. Forget it. I'm checking out. I said what needed to be said and tired of repeating myself.

 

[william]

I am really tired of hearing about how the rich don't pay their fair share. That is a dem talking point and is a flat out lie!!!!

Who pays the most income tax? | USAFacts

In 2023, the top 5% of earners collectively paid $1.27 trillion in income taxes, or about 60% of the national total.

usafacts.org

Summary of the Latest Federal Income Tax Data, Tax Year 2020

The latest IRS data shows that the U.S. federal individual income tax continued to be progressive, borne primarily by the highest income earners.

taxfoundation.org

Who pays the most income tax? | USAFacts

In 2023, the top 5% of earners collectively paid $1.27 trillion in income taxes, or about 60% of the national total.

usafacts.org

Americans think they pay too much in taxes. Here's who pays the most and least to the IRS.

The U.S. tax system is designed to be progressive, with rich people paying a larger share of their income to the IRS. Here's what to know.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[NuclearID]

This is what the Republicans want America, you the working class citizen to pay for the public services and infrastructure for big bloated corporations to make billions of dollars off the public services and infrastructure they use paid for and built by on the backs of your hard labor.

 

[GBS61]

C'est ce que veulent les Républicains en Amérique, vous, les citoyens de la classe ouvrière, pour payer les services publics et les infrastructures pour que les grandes entreprises gonflées gagnent des milliards de dollars grâce aux services publics et aux infrastructures qu'elles utilisent, payés et construits sur le dos de votre dur labeur.

 

[GBS61]

C'est vraiment comme ça que vous allez évaluer la vie de chacun et comment nous nous en sortons, en fonction des objets matériels que nous possédons ? De plus, l'école n'est pas gratuite. La dernière fois que j'ai vérifié, les parents redoutent toujours l'arrivée de l'école car ils ne peuvent jamais se permettre les fournitures. Oubliez ça. Je vérifie. J'ai dit ce qu'il fallait dire et j'en ai assez de me répéter.