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Future Potential Russian Invasion of NATO Members

And then there's the wildcard of all the US military bases, hardware, and troops in Europe. If the US reneges on Article 5 but still maintains a military presence in Europe, and a US base gets taken out by a Russian nuke, don't you think every American would be calling for blood? Trump would almost have no choice but to respond in that scenario.
Two announcements which came in recent days suggest the US expects Russia to invade Europe, and is actively trying to get its troops out of the way: the idea of relocating 35k US troops from Germany to Hungary (Russian puppet state; won't be directly attacked) and the announcement that the US will not participate in planning military exercises in Europe from 2026 onward. There's also that statement from Hegseth that the US intends to "revise its posture" in Europe after a peace deal is signed with Ukraine. This is probably a prelude to withdrawing US troops from Poland and the Baltics under the guise of "confidence-building measures".

While the US has numerous installations in Germany, most of which are holdovers from the Cold War, there are only two permanent US bases east of the German border - in Desevelu (Romania) and Redzikowo (Poland), both of which are part of the Aegis Ashore ABM system and were originally intended to defend the USA from ballistic threats originating in the Middle East (mainly Iran). The status of these installations following a Russian invasion is unknown, but rumors circulate that Trump may agree to dismantle them as another free gift to Putin.
 
Two announcements which came in recent days suggest the US expects Russia to invade Europe, and is actively trying to get its troops out of the way: the idea of relocating 35k US troops from Germany to Hungary (Russian puppet state; won't be directly attacked) and the announcement that the US will not participate in planning military exercises in Europe from 2026 onward. There's also that statement from Hegseth that the US intends to "revise its posture" in Europe after a peace deal is signed with Ukraine. This is probably a prelude to withdrawing US troops from Poland and the Baltics under the guise of "confidence-building measures".

While the US has numerous installations in Germany, most of which are holdovers from the Cold War, there are only two permanent US bases east of the German border - in Desevelu (Romania) and Redzikowo (Poland), both of which are part of the Aegis Ashore ABM system and were originally intended to defend the USA from ballistic threats originating in the Middle East (mainly Iran). The status of these installations following a Russian invasion is unknown, but rumors circulate that Trump may agree to dismantle them as another free gift to Putin.
It’s important to look at the historical context and current policies to understand what’s happening with the U.S. military posture in Europe.

Since WWII, the U.S. has stationed troops in Europe to prevent Soviet and later Russian aggression. NATOs Article 5 collective defense has only been invoked once after 9/11, but remains the foundation of transatlantic security and corner stone of American Security too! Democracies are stronger when they work and stand together.

U.S. relocating troops from Germany to Hungary is just nuts, Hungary has been increasingly aligned with Russia and would likely not be directly attacked in a broader conflict. This could be a way as you said for the U.S. to move its troops out of harm’s way without fully withdrawing from Europe for sure...

U.S. will stop participating in european military exercises after 2026 is also nuts. The Pentagon has already shifted focus toward the Indo Pacific, and if the U.S. reduces its role in NATO exercises, it could signal to Russia that NATO’s deterrence posture is weakening.

The U.S. has two key permanent military sites in Germany. Both part of the Aegis ashore missile defense system, officially aimed at countering threats from Iran but seen by Russia as a threat to its nuclear deterrence. If the U.S. were to withdraw from Poland and the baltics, as stated by Trump administration, it would remove a major obstacle to Russian military expansion.

The concern about Trump administration dismantling these installations isn’t far fetched. Trump has previously suggested pulling out of NATO altogether, and there have been persistent rumors that he could negotiate troop withdrawals as part of a deal with Russia. If that happens, Eastern Europe is left wide open.

Russia has a military doctrine that includes using tactical nuclear weapons in a conventional war to force de escalation. This is sometimes called the escalate to de escalate strategy, and it’s designed to make the west hesitate before responding.

If the U.S. were to renege on Article 5 but still have a military presence in Europe, it would create a highly unstable situation. If a U.S. base in Europe were hit by a Russian nuke, public pressure would likely force an American response meaning that even if the U.S. tried to avoid a war, it could be drawn in anyway.

If these trends continue, Russia could feel emboldened to act just like it did in Georgia and Crimea when Western responses were limited. The more NATO signals weakness or disunity, the more likely we are to see another test of its resolve.


Will be scary to see how this develops over the next few years... all because of two men. Putin & same lesser extent (or extention of) Trump.
 
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If the U.S. were to renege on Article 5 but still have a military presence in Europe, it would create a highly unstable situation. If a U.S. base in Europe were hit by a Russian nuke, public pressure would likely force an American response meaning that even if the U.S. tried to avoid a war, it could be drawn in anyway.
Trump is already strongly deterred from acting against Russia, and Russia knows it because Trump went ahead and publicly admitted this multiple times (along the lines of "I'm doing everything possible to prevent nuclear war"). This is a catastrophic mistake on Trump's part - more damaging than cutting off military aid to Ukraine. It means the US will now find itself on the receiving end of more, and more audacious, nuclear threats from hostile nuclear states (not just Russia).

Since the very beginning of the Russia-Ukraine war (and I'm talking 2014, not 2022) the dynamics of this conflict are being dictated by the existence of nuclear weapons on both sides. The war would have unfolded very differently if that wasn't the case.
 
Hungary doesn’t even have the capability to house 35,000 American troops. Nothing was ever confirmed and that was all a rumor in the media as of right now.
That is true, but nobody's marching yet, and you can bet Orban will literally move heaven and earth to accommodate those troops.
 
This argument is based on the premise that Trump intends to follow the law no matter what.
People need to look beyond the click-bait headlines and see what someone will really do as opposed to what the screamers claim someone will do.
 
I wonder what Tom Clancy would have to say about the current state of affairs.
Probably write a book called State of Affairs.
BND is kind of a joke - unless they got their act together over the past three years (and that's a big if).

Nevertheless, I trust this assessment. It's consistent with everything that has been going on over the past year or so, and there are already overt indications that Russia is preparing for war against NATO (or what's left of it). The US withdrawal from Europe is sure to accelerate these plans.

Ukrainian intelligence claims that Russia intends to invade the Baltics next year. While I don't take their announcements at face value, this does sound somewhat plausible.
The EU is huge without the terminal overcrowding and overpopulation of far East/Asia.
I’m looking at you, China, India and Indonesia. (All three of you could be brought to your knees with a ruthless enough application of force to your food supply. You would simply eat yourself to death.)

Back to the nearly perfectly constructed EU. If they could ever find their balls and get the women to give them back to the men, they could actually become the most powerful fighting force on earth in very short order. Their problem is they’re mostly milquetoasts metro-sexuals. I don’t know if two world wars killed off everybody but the cowards or if overwhelming US security allowed for the socialist to dig in so deep that they brainwashed everyone. It’s probably both.

But it’s absolutely ridiculous when you look at just the meme circulating as of late: 500 million (rich) people want 300 million (not really rich) people to protect them from 100 million (poor) people.. It’s ridiculous and stupid. And it’s not like they’re started off their back heel. Their weapon systems are clearly superior to anything from the east and their members are fully armed with nuclear weapons and now have stealthy fighters. The Germans, by the way, makes the best damn defensive submarines in the world. Hands-down. Their members British and the French are fully armed with nuclear weapons so there’s that. The EU outnumbers their super scary enemy by almost 5-1. They only have a problem in their minds. They should be the ones threatening Russia.

So since the EU can defend itself, the USA no longer needs to. If we’re required to station 50,000 or 100,000 troops in Europe, then Europe should station 100,000 troops in North America. We need them to help protect us or we need our people back.

In my perfectly unscientific opinion, I just think the EU are a bunch of greedy entitled self absorbed pussies that wanna ride on our coat tails for free and only about half of them would show up to help defend us from China, maybe less than half.

Time to come home because OUR threat is from the west and our enemy outnumbers us better than 5-1. We have REAL problems.
 
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That's one strategy. I would counter with the suggestion that if the US/NATO had entered into the Ukraine/Russian war full-force immediately after the invasion began, nuclear weapons would have been used. It would have started with a couple of small tactical nukes over Ukraine, but would have quickly escalated to a more widespread exchange. No telling how far it would have gone, but I guarantee you we would be living in an entirely different world had your strategy been used in Ukraine.

I fully support your strategy if you are going to war against a country without nuclear weapons. But countries with nuclear arsenals require a different approach if you don't want entire cities wiped off the map.
That’s why I hope the French give the Poles nuclear weapons. If Russia steps, 1 foot into Poland wham. But Russia knows it as well, and it would serve as a very credible deterrent.

Just like I’m sure France would do unto Russia if they ever reach them and Israel originally planned to do everybody if Tel Aviv or Jerusalem fell and I’m just as certain the Russians will nuke somebody if the Crimean is seriously threatened.

This was a very long winded way of saying everything that’s on. The table is in play except the Crimean.
 
Two announcements which came in recent days suggest the US expects Russia to invade Europe, and is actively trying to get its troops out of the way: the idea of relocating 35k US troops from Germany to Hungary (Russian puppet state; won't be directly attacked) and the announcement that the US will not participate in planning military exercises in Europe from 2026 onward. There's also that statement from Hegseth that the US intends to "revise its posture" in Europe after a peace deal is signed with Ukraine. This is probably a prelude to withdrawing US troops from Poland and the Baltics under the guise of "confidence-building measures".

While the US has numerous installations in Germany, most of which are holdovers from the Cold War, there are only two permanent US bases east of the German border - in Desevelu (Romania) and Redzikowo (Poland), both of which are part of the Aegis Ashore ABM system and were originally intended to defend the USA from ballistic threats originating in the Middle East (mainly Iran). The status of these installations following a Russian invasion is unknown, but rumors circulate that Trump may agree to dismantle them as another free gift to Putin.
Why the heck does anyone think the US is REQUIRED (existentially not from some entanglement) to keep troops in Europe in one form or another for over 100 years and now in complete saturation for over 70?

I don’t see NATO stationing troops in North America. Not placing troops outside of your country does not remove you from NATO membership or then almost no one would a member.

Pay your treaty obligated amount, Send some troops to Guam and Alaska as tripwires and then we can talk.

Side note about Europes NATO Treaty obligations:

European have set ridiculously low standards and then failed to met them. (Pathetic or not?)
 
Side note about Europes NATO Treaty obligations:

European have set ridiculously low standards and then failed to met them. (Pathetic or not?)
99% of the noise from European capitals has occurred in the past 3 weeks, which tells me that it’s way more that they’re afraid the U.S. is done bankrolling them than it does they’re afraid of Russia otherwise this build up would’ve started in 2014. So if Trump gets Europe to take defense seriously I fail to see why anyone, including Europe, would have a problem with it.
 
The US won't allow it. Not a chance. Not unless there was actual war on the homefront.
And not to mention, it is utterly unrequired for their 'help' (as helpful as a bunch of nords would do in the pacific😂) isn't really necessary.
 
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That’s why I hope the French give the Poles nuclear weapons. If Russia steps, 1 foot into Poland wham. But Russia knows it as well, and it would serve as a very credible deterrent.
Why would you want Poland, a country the US treats with hostility (or - at best - indifference), to acquire nuclear weapons? 🤨
 
99% of the noise from European capitals has occurred in the past 3 weeks, which tells me that it’s way more that they’re afraid the U.S. is done bankrolling them than it does they’re afraid of Russia otherwise this build up would’ve started in 2014. So if Trump gets Europe to take defense seriously I fail to see why anyone, including Europe, would have a problem with it.
This view fails to account for the specific nature of the European security architecture. It's not a centralized federation like the USA - rather, we're talking about a bunch of sovereign states, each with its own agency and agenda. While it is true that Europe is in a debacle largely of its own making, European countries have long resisted rearming not just because of their trust in the US security umbrella, but also because - historically - militarization of the continent tended to lead to very bad outcomes, as you well know. This is a history lesson that's still keenly felt in places like Berlin.

Naturally, with Russian hordes at the gates the situation has become untenable, and Europe has no choice but to militarize or be overrun. However, a sensible US administration would have handled this in a sane way - eg. by setting a deadline for cessation of US aid to Ukraine, or withdrawal of US forces from Europe, and negotiating a plan for action with its European allies. What's happening instead is Trump just pulling the rug from under everyone's feet. Such a knee-jerk approach to foreign policy is not in the US national interest - unless, for some reason, you want a continental war in Europe (why, though?)
 
...European countries have long resisted rearming not just because of their trust in the US security umbrella, but also because - historically - militarization of the continent tended to lead to very bad outcomes, as you well know. This is a history lesson that's still keenly felt in places like Berlin...
I'd say this is the core of the whole discussion and the core of the current reality.
 
Capitulating to Russia over Ukraine is a pretty strong indicator to Russia that NATO members may not be as safe as they once thought they were.

True but if Putin invaded Poland the US would eventually dragged into that war at least with funding arms and intelligence at first.

I understand that more NATO countries should doing their part (Britain is the second largest contributor despite our size) with funding and manpower.

Straight Isolationism has never worked in the US's favour ever, they always ended fighting in the end.

A lot of this isolationist thinking has become popular largely due to the fuck up that was Iraq and 20 years in Afghanistan, its created apathy in the US public to supporting any conflict involving the US, some of it very understandable, some of irrational and unrealistic.

My problem with Trump is he wants quick solutions to big problems. Signing all these executives orders don't mean shit if you don't have anything signed into law, it can all be reversed with the next President. He want's a quick solution to Ukraine and I don't think its that simple.

I think we need someone a bit pragmatic. Not Biden promising the Moon and Stars to Ukraine or Trump doing his best to wash his hands of it like a bad boardroom deal.

The US didn't become a global superpower (Great) through isolationism.
 
Lithuania's intelligence services assessed that Russia may have the capabilities to conduct a limited campaign against one or several NATO countries within three to five years, an assessment that is consistent with ISW's assessments about Russian efforts to restructure and prepare its military and society for a future conflict with NATO in the medium to long-term.Lithuania's assessment largely coheres with ISW's long-standing assessment that Russia is uninterested in a peace agreement to end the war in Ukraine in the near-term, and Western estimates for the timeline of a Russian attack on a NATO member state correlate closely with ongoing Western sanctions limiting Russia's defense industrial capabilities.Any effort by Western powers to alleviate sanctions pressure on the Russian regime will accelerate Russia's capacity to optimize its military and further embolden Russian leadership, as Russia's defense industrial base (DIB) remains constrained by financial mechanisms in the medium- to long-term.

 
The US won't allow it. Not a chance. Not unless there was actual war on the homefront.
I’m betting they would in Guam and privately in Alaska. There are already many here: Unit training at Polk, Irwin and 29 Palms. Also a large number (I do not know what it is, but it appeared large) of officers transfer between services in NATO. So leaving a company from a brigade or battalion that is training behind on rotation is doable. They can be all teeth (think US Marines) and the US its tail or trains.

Yep I can see it …. Just not in my lifetime. That’s why I through it up. Other than the British, if they could find one and the Dutch, who would be here in New York minute, I think everyone else would be arguing about minutia and never get anything done.
 
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